Last Second in Dallas

[Rick Plant]

The case was open. The Mexico City stuff hadn't been fully investigated at that point and people in the National Security community were suspecting a connection between Oswald's Mexico trip and the assassination.

The files released under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992, revealed the CIA was looking at Oswald while he was in Mexico City in September of 1963 trying to return to the Soviet Union.

The CIA was monitoring the Soviet Union and Cuba's embassies in Mexico City, and they spotted Oswald there in September of 1963. Oswald was trying to get visas to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union right at that time.

[Jon Banks]

The files released under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992, revealed the CIA was looking at Oswald while he was in Mexico City in September of 1963 trying to return to the Soviet Union.

The CIA was monitoring the Soviet Union and Cuba's embassies in Mexico City, and they spotted Oswald there in September of 1963. Oswald was trying to get visas to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union right at that time.

I’m aware that they were watching him.

There were also unconfirmed rumors of Oswald threatening JFK while in Mexico City and he visited places that were known to be used for meetings with Cuban spies according to the US Ambassador in Mexico.

Even if Oswald’s Mexico City trip had nothing to do with what happened on 11/22, they couldn’t possibly have ruled out a conspiracy within the first 48 hours under those circumstances.

[Martin Weidmann]

So the fantasy conspirators assassinated the US president, framed Oswald, and covered up the identity of the real assassins as a pretext to start a war with Cuba or Russia but then threw in the towel within 24 hours because LBJ was not on board?  Instead they immediately did a complete about face placed all the blame on Oswald and discounted the involvement of anyone else despite that being the entire purpose of murdering the president at enormous risk to themselves?  Come on!  LOL.

So the fantasy conspirators assassinated the US president, framed Oswald, and covered up the identity of the real assassins as a pretext to start a war with Cuba or Russia

Where do you get from that the intention of the assassination was a pretext to start a war? Another strawman perhaps?

It seems to me that the percieved possibility of a war with Cuba or Russia was simply used to limit the scope of the investigation to a lone gunman scenario only.

[Richard Smith]

Due to Oswald's kooky background, there was undoubtedly a very real concern that WWIII could be started on a false premise that Cuba or Russia was behind the assassination.

And how did they know that the premise was false? The answer is of course that they didn't, but they needed a patsy to keep up the pretense that Russia or Cuba were not involved even when they possibly were.

Which explains perfectly what Katzenbach wrote in his memo!

The evidence from the very beginning confirmed beyond any doubt that Oswald was the assassin.  Oswald was also a known kook who the FBI and CIA had kept tabs on long prior to 11.22.  He didn't just come to their attention on 11.22.  The US Government had no intelligence source linking Oswald to any plot with Russia or Cuba at that time.  Nevertheless, a full investigation was conducted into the matter and no evidence to the contrary has ever been found.  There was a real concern, given Oswald's nutty background, that the public not falsely conclude that Russia or Cuba was behind the assassination (as many CTers allege to this day) and pressure the US into some retaliatory action that could have resulted in WWIII.  If you want to conclude, however, that it was premature to reach that conclusion at that time, then knock yourself out.  That is not relevant to the critical point that no evidence has ever been found that Russia or Cuba had any involvement in the assassination.  Even after nearly six decades.  This is just another CTer rabbit hole to evade the relevant point.

[Jon Banks]

It seems to me that the percieved possibility of a war with Cuba or Russia was simply used to limit the scope of the investigation to a lone gunman scenario only.

Exactly. That's clear based on the Katzenbach memo and what LBJ told Earl Warren in order to convince him to join the investigation:


"President Lyndon B. Johnson used the fear of nuclear war with the Soviet Union to persuade key national leaders to participate in the Warren Commission investigation into the slaying of John F. Kennedy, newly released White House telephone transcripts showed Wednesday.

Records opened by the National Archives reveal that Johnson expressed his worries to Sen. Richard B. Russell of Georgia, once a leader of Southern Democrats, and then Chief Justice Earl Warren, who was to head the commission, that unverified rumors about the involvement of Soviet or Cuban officials in the Kennedy assassination might push the United States into a war that could “kill 40 million Americans in an hour.”"

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-09-23-mn-38234-story.html



It's such an obvious fact that it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that in 1963, they intended to seriously investigate the possibility that others were involved. It's more likely that they didn't want to find out if others were involved because the options for how to respond were not desirable.

[Martin Weidmann]

The evidence from the very beginning confirmed beyond any doubt that Oswald was the assassin.  Oswald was also a known kook who the FBI and CIA had kept tabs on long prior to 11.22.  He didn't just come to their attention on 11.22.  The US Government had no intelligence source linking Oswald to any plot with Russia or Cuba at that time.  Nevertheless, a full investigation was conducted into the matter and no evidence to the contrary has ever been found.  There was a real concern, given Oswald's nutty background, that the public not falsely conclude that Russia or Cuba was behind the assassination (as many CTers allege to this day) and pressure the US into some retaliatory action that could have resulted in WWIII.  If you want to conclude, however, that it was premature to reach that conclusion at that time, then knock yourself out.  That is not relevant to the critical point that no evidence has ever been found that Russia or Cuba had any involvement in the assassination.  Even after nearly six decades.  This is just another CTer rabbit hole to evade the relevant point.

The evidence from the very beginning confirmed beyond any doubt that Oswald was the assassin.

BS... Oswald was initially arrested for the murder of Tippit.


The US Government had no intelligence source linking Oswald to any plot with Russia or Cuba at that time.

And you know this, how? And even if that's true how does that rule out others being involved in a conspiracy?


Nevertheless, a full investigation was conducted into the matter and no evidence to the contrary has ever been found.

Yeah sure, and we just have to take your word for that, right?


There was a real concern, given Oswald's nutty background, that the public not falsely conclude that Russia or Cuba was behind the assassination (as many CTers allege to this day) and pressure the US into some retaliatory action that could have resulted in WWIII.

More BS... Public pressure has never caused a war.

If you want to conclude, however, that it was premature to reach that conclusion at that time

Of course it was premature and to argue it wasn't is being utterly disingenuous.

That is not relevant to the critical point that no evidence has ever been found that Russia or Cuba had any involvement in the assassination. Even after nearly six decades.

Well, let's see; within 48 hours they said that Oswald was a lone gunman, so why would they investigate any involvement of others in the assassination?
With that in mind, it's hardly surprising that no evidence was ever found that others were involved. For crying out loud, what else would you expect?

Oh, and before you go there, I'm not one of the people claiming that Cuba or Russia were involved in the assassination.

Now, after we've got your word salad out of the way, why not try to answer my question for once?

Here it is again;

So the fantasy conspirators assassinated the US president, framed Oswald, and covered up the identity of the real assassins as a pretext to start a war with Cuba or Russia

Where do you get from that the intention of the assassination was a pretext to start a war? Another strawman perhaps?

It seems to me that the percieved possibility of a war with Cuba or Russia was simply used to limit the scope of the investigation to a lone gunman scenario only.

[Richard Smith]

The evidence from the very beginning confirmed beyond any doubt that Oswald was the assassin.

BS... Oswald was initially arrested for the murder of Tippit.


The US Government had no intelligence source linking Oswald to any plot with Russia or Cuba at that time.

And you know this, how? And even if that's true how does that rule out others being involved in a conspiracy?


Nevertheless, a full investigation was conducted into the matter and no evidence to the contrary has ever been found.

Yeah sure, and we just have to take your word for that, right?


There was a real concern, given Oswald's nutty background, that the public not falsely conclude that Russia or Cuba was behind the assassination (as many CTers allege to this day) and pressure the US into some retaliatory action that could have resulted in WWIII.

More BS... Public pressure has never caused a war.

If you want to conclude, however, that it was premature to reach that conclusion at that time

Of course it was premature and to argue it wasn't is being utterly disingenuous.

That is not relevant to the critical point that no evidence has ever been found that Russia or Cuba had any involvement in the assassination. Even after nearly six decades.

Well, let's see; within 48 hours they said that Oswald was a lone gunman, so why would they investigate any involvement of others in the assassination?
With that in mind, it's hardly surprising that no evidence was ever found that others were involved. For crying out loud, what else would you expect?

Oh, and before you go there, I'm not one of the people claiming that Cuba or Russia were involved in the assassination.

Now, after we've got your word salad out of the way, why not try to answer my question for once?

Here it is again;

Classic rabbit hole nonsense.  Trying to deflect the discussion onto whether there was a premature rush to conclude Oswald was not working with the Cubans or Russians.  We are six decades down the road, and THERE IS STILL NO SUCH EVIDENCE even if that initial conclusion was premature.  The matter has now been investigated officially and unofficially to the greatest extent of any crime in world history.  There is no evidence that Oswald was working with the Russians or Cubans to assassinate JFK EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THE AUTHORITIES WERE PREMATURE IN REACHING THIS CONCLUSION.  It remains correct.  Good grief.   

[Martin Weidmann]

Classic rabbit hole nonsense.  Trying to deflect the discussion onto whether there was a premature rush to conclude Oswald was not working with the Cubans or Russians.  We are six decades down the road, and THERE IS STILL NO SUCH EVIDENCE even if that initial conclusion was premature.  The matter has now been investigated officially and unofficially to the greatest extent of any crime in world history.  There is no evidence that Oswald was working with the Russians or Cubans to assassinate JFK EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THE AUTHORITIES WERE PREMATURE IN REACHING THIS CONCLUSION.  It remains correct.  Good grief.

Why do you keep repeating the same old BS instead of answering my question?