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Author Topic: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland  (Read 10372 times)

Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2022, 10:15:08 PM »
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To begin with, Rowland wasn't "mercilessly grilled." He was questioned with about the same intensity as any of the other witnesses. That being said, Rowland isn't "a threat" to anything but verisimilitude.   

Initially, I didn't have an issue with what Rowland said. Then again, I was relying on the story second hand, only taking in what different authors had to say on the matter.

Then I actually bothered to read Rowland's testimony. On his own, he raised a number of red flags. His claims: to have super human vision, to have conducted fairly advance experiments in gunfire acoustics, to be taking "post-graduate" classes at a local high school, 147 IQ etc, etc, stretched credulity to the limit. I then read his wife's testimony. Her word deflated his puffery: he wasn't a straight "a" student, by any means. He hadn't graduated from high school, as he'd claimed. In fact, her testimony gives the impression that she really didn't believe him, either in as to the "gunman", or just in general. There were no special lesions or experiments in echo acoustics (for that matter, Rowland failed his basic physics class). 

Rowland's statements raised the same red flags with the WC staff that it did for me. A few days after his deposition, they asked for a background check to be run against the various claims he'd made about himself. The result is interesting reading, to say the least. None of his grandiose claims were true. Once the balloon had been punctured, it shriveled into the shape of a big dreamer was was noting more than an itinerant high school dropout. A young man who flitted from school to school after wearing out his welcome, who did the same from job to job and from one domicile to another. A young man whom others had learned not to believe long before November 22.

The biggest issue I have is, someone who wishes to assassinate the President is not going stand up and proudly show off his rifle to everyone in Dealey Plaza 15 minutes before the act. After all, the first rule of covert action club is to keep the action covert. And, there is the way the gunman starts out 15 feet behind the window, then systematically moves closer and closer once Rowland realizes that someone so far inside the building would be lost in the shadows. Then he tries to come back in the WC deposition and claim that he didn't say the rifle guy was that far back. I guess he forgot he said differently, first to the Dallas Sheriff's Department, then to the FBI. There is the mysterious, late appearance of the "elderly negro,"  who only appears in his WC deposition. I know that a lot of people want to believe that this man was Bonnie Ray Williams, but Williams was only 20 in 1963. How did he age so fast? Nessan also has a good point about Rowland's description of the bottom of the window appearing to be 18" above the rifle guy's head. Given the low window sill, and the limited height the sash could be raised, Rowland's description is best described as, "impossible".

Kinda interesting you say "To begin with, Rowland wasn't "mercilessly grilled." ... and then proceed to tell us all about his human flaws and wreck his psychological profile.

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2022, 10:15:08 PM »


Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2022, 01:27:58 AM »
Kinda interesting you say "To begin with, Rowland wasn't "mercilessly grilled." ... and then proceed to tell us all about his human flaws and wreck his psychological profile.
Two different things, Mr Reeves. This is like watching a nine year old trying to make a lego house out of curlers and turnips.

Had the WC staff wanted to "mercilessly grill" Rowland, they would have done the backgrounder first, then confronted him with it during his testimony.

It's Rowland's improbable claims and additions in his testimony that prompted them to look into his background and see if it matched what he had told them. TL;DR: it didn't.

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2022, 01:59:44 AM »
Do any of these things have the slightest thing to do with the JFK assassination?  No.

Did the Warren Commission subject witnesses who supported their version of events to the same scrutiny about unrelated matters?  No.
More sour grapes from you, kid.

You know as well as anyone else that the epic string of fanciful tales spouted by Mr Rowland's in his testimony negatively affects his credibility quite a bit. Especially since he went out of his way to put them in there.

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2022, 01:59:44 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2022, 03:22:52 AM »
Two different things, Mr Reeves. This is like watching a nine year old trying to make a lego house out of curlers and turnips.

Had the WC staff wanted to "mercilessly grill" Rowland, they would have done the backgrounder first, then confronted him with it during his testimony.

It's Rowland's improbable claims and additions in his testimony that prompted them to look into his background and see if it matched what he had told them. TL;DR: it didn't.

"It's Rowland's improbable claims and additions in his testimony that prompted them to look into his background..."

This is not true.
The reason the FBI take the unprecedented step of investigating Rowland is his claim about the black male in the SN window.
The first part of their report is to discredit this aspect of his testimony, the rest is character assassination.
It is noteworthy that when they visit the TSBD they are only interested in Eddie Piper and Troy West as possible candidates for the man in the SN window when they already know Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor having his lunch at the time in question and that the remains of his lunch were found on top of the SN!
Go figure.
There can be no doubt the young Mr Rowland is a bit of a bullsh%tter and this does no favour for his trustworthiness or credibility as a witness. But there is a simple way to assess the accuracy of his observations regarding the man with the rifle - are they corroborated by other witness testimony or evidence.
That Rowland's description of the man with the rifle is confirmed by three other eye witnesses is solid corroboration.
That a scoped rifle is found on the 6th floor is solid corroboration.
As far as the black male in the SN window is concerned - Bonnie Ray Williams is known to be having his lunch on the 6th floor at that time, the remains of which were found on top of the SN and not 30ft away on a trolley. Rowland's observation that this man disappears about 5 minutes before the motorcade arrives corresponds with BRW's movements around this time.

Obviously this destroys the LNer narrative and must be discredited at all costs but that involves believing in an almost miraculous coincidence.

Barbara Rowland's testimony is telling, it is almost exclusively about her husband and culminates in a very personal question to which she gives a curt reply:

Mr BELIN: ...just from your general experience, do you feel you can rely on everything that your husband says?
Mrs. ROWLAND: I don't feel that I can rely on everything anybody says.

Belin is almost apologetic:

Mr. BELIN. Well, this is really an unfair question for me to ask any wife about her husband, and I am not asking it very correctly, but---

Mrs Rowland then reveals an important aspect of her husband's character:

Mrs. ROWLAND: At times my husband is prone to exaggerate. Does that answer it?
Mr. BELIN:I think it does.
Is there anything else you want to add to that, or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Usually his exaggerations are not concerned with anything other than himself. They are usually to boast his ego. They usually say that he is really smarter than he is, or he is a better salesman than he is, something like that.


Arnold Rowland is prone to bigging himself up, particularly his intelligence. This is exactly what the FBI investigation reveals. Nearly every aspect of what is regarded as false in his testimony relates to this aspect of his character.
But this is a far cry from making up false claims in a murder investigation involving the president of the United States. Claims that could put him in some real trouble if proven false.
Rowland's claims about the men on the 6th floor can be solidly corroborated by other witness testimony and physical evidence. His character has no bearing on the matter.

One final note - LNers like to make the point that Rowland's man in the SN is some kind of late addition but the fact is that Roger Craig reports Rowland talking about two men on the 6th floor. I'm not sure if Rowland makes the same point to Harkness, Turner and Sorrels but the main interest of the investigating authorities would be the man with the rifle.
It is only later that evening Rowland understands the importance of the man in the SN which is why he raises the issue with the FBI agents who visit him Saturday morning. Interestingly, these agents have no interest in the man in the SN window and basically tell him to forget about it. It's almost as if it's been decided there was only one person involved in the assassination by Saturday morning.
Go figure.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 03:23:37 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2022, 07:45:44 PM »
Two different things, Mr Reeves. This is like watching a nine year old trying to make a lego house out of curlers and turnips.

It's like watching a guy who thinks insults and condescending nicknames make his arguments any better.

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2022, 07:45:44 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2022, 03:02:02 AM »
"It's Rowland's improbable claims and additions in his testimony that prompted them to look into his background..."

This is not true.
The reason the FBI take the unprecedented step of investigating Rowland is his claim about the black male in the SN window.
The first part of their report is to discredit this aspect of his testimony, the rest is character assassination.
It is noteworthy that when they visit the TSBD they are only interested in Eddie Piper and Troy West as possible candidates for the man in the SN window when they already know Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor having his lunch at the time in question and that the remains of his lunch were found on top of the SN!
Go figure.

You're got this backwards, Mr O'Meara. The reason they are only interested in Mr Piper and Mr West as possible candidates is they know full well that Mr Williams simply does not fit the description given by Mr Rowland. This has the consequence that Mr Rowland must be discredited----------------he is a witness to the presence in the SN window of a non-employee

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2022, 04:52:42 AM »
You're got this backwards, Mr O'Meara. The reason they are only interested in Mr Piper and Mr West as possible candidates is they know full well that Mr Williams simply does not fit the description given by Mr Rowland. This has the consequence that Mr Rowland must be discredited----------------he is a witness to the presence in the SN window of a non-employee

Nobody's buying your Multiracial-Assassination-Death squad [MAD] theory BS: Alan, so go sell crazy some place else.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2022, 05:41:34 AM »
Nobody's buying your Multiracial-Assassination-Death squad [MAD] theory BS: Alan, so go sell crazy some place else.

~Grin~

So in the O'Meara World of Double Standards, the description of the white man's open-necked shirt/tshirt rules out Mr Oswald but the description of the dark-complected man's plaid shirt does not rule out Mr Williams. Got it

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Re: The Curious Case Of Arnold Rowland
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2022, 05:41:34 AM »