Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”  (Read 6261 times)

Offline James Hackerott

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« on: June 13, 2022, 02:39:19 AM »
Advertisement
Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”

My apology to Steve Martin’s skit from vintage Saturday Night Live.
Also, I give very long overdue but very grateful thanks to Charles Collins, for his patient and quite helpful collaboration with 3D modeling to help determine the timing of Tom Alyea’s filming of the sniper’s nest. However, Charles does not, I believe, agree with my conclusions from the interpretation of this work.

The image under discussion is a stacked frame composite of 171 frames of Alyea’s first of two scenes taken of the sniper’s nest rest boxes, barricade boxes, window ledge and slat flooring. The purpose of registering and stacking individual frames is to reduce the video noise giving the possibility of drawing out fainter details not evident in single frames. The stacked product is then able to withstand more aggressive enhancements compared with that for single frames. Stacking gives a theoretical improvement of signal (true image) to noise ratio by the square root of the number of frames ~13x for this example.

Tom Alyea asserted that Capt. Fritz picked up the hulls and replaced them before the crime lab took their photos. I wanted to see if Alyea’s timing could be consistent with his assertion.

For the timing of Alyea’s film Charles and myself used our own independent 3D modeling software for analysis of several shadows present in the image. Of primary interest to me were the complex shadows cast by the raised window sash and frame on the window’s east bricks. As Charles pointed out to me the light/shadow pattern on the center window divider (mullion) is also helpful. Nevertheless we were getting timings maybe 30 minutes or more differences. Stubborn me felt the time could be earlier before the Dallas PD Crime  lab took their photos of the nest area at near 13:17. I decided the only way to confirm the models was to put myself in the Sixth Floor Museum’s exhibit on November 22. I was able to photo the SN on the anniversary under brilliant blue sky. My determination range of error of 1:55-2:00 pm is wider than I wanted. It was later that night after study of my day’s photo work revealed that the museum’s window is 4-5” lower than when Dillard and Alyea filmed the partially open sniper’s window.

I was doubly blessed that the following day the sky was still cloudless and I was able to reproduce the timing of Lt. Day’s leaving the building and crossing Houston Street at 1:56 pm. It appears from preliminary examination of photos that Captain Fritz also left within a few minutes of Lt. Day.

Timeline, pm:
1:17      Dallas Police Crime Scene Photos
1:23       Hulls collected and placed in an evidence envelope (from Warren Commission testimony)
1:55-2:00   Tom Alyea, after he and Studebaker returned to the nest area after filming the Carcano.
1:56      Lt. Day leaves the depository, and Capt. Fritz at a similar time.

171 registered and stacked frames from the WFAA DVD with subsequent processing reveals something the size and shape of a Carcano rifle hull, as seen in the DPD crime scene photos. It is on the floor very near where hull “B” was labeled in the crime photos, but is no longer positioned nearly parallel with the ledge bricks, but rotated some 30 degrees in the direction of Alyea’s camera. It appears in the processed image between the two “L”s  of DALLAS, along the floor/brick intersection. This object is not in this position in the crime scene photos or in an especially clear photo taken from a similar location by William Allen, probably around 3 pm.


https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/3674/-?ctx=976b9fe77bac91797901f98dc91d9726997aa52c&idx=177

There is no significant floor defect in that location that could be responsible for the object. The object is not a film defect for several reasons I’d be  happy to describe if there any questions.

So, assuming the object is a hull, why is it there when presumably the hulls were already collected for evidence some 35-40 minutes earlier?

JFK Assassination Forum

Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« on: June 13, 2022, 02:39:19 AM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2022, 03:34:48 AM »
Hi James, I am very happy that you decided to share this impressive work of yours on this forum. Thanks for the kind words, I was honored to be able to help. I will have some more comments as time allows. Thanks again, take care!

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2022, 06:18:07 PM »
Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”

My apology to Steve Martin’s skit from vintage Saturday Night Live.
Also, I give very long overdue but very grateful thanks to Charles Collins, for his patient and quite helpful collaboration with 3D modeling to help determine the timing of Tom Alyea’s filming of the sniper’s nest. However, Charles does not, I believe, agree with my conclusions from the interpretation of this work.

The image under discussion is a stacked frame composite of 171 frames of Alyea’s first of two scenes taken of the sniper’s nest rest boxes, barricade boxes, window ledge and slat flooring. The purpose of registering and stacking individual frames is to reduce the video noise giving the possibility of drawing out fainter details not evident in single frames. The stacked product is then able to withstand more aggressive enhancements compared with that for single frames. Stacking gives a theoretical improvement of signal (true image) to noise ratio by the square root of the number of frames ~13x for this example.

Tom Alyea asserted that Capt. Fritz picked up the hulls and replaced them before the crime lab took their photos. I wanted to see if Alyea’s timing could be consistent with his assertion.

For the timing of Alyea’s film Charles and myself used our own independent 3D modeling software for analysis of several shadows present in the image. Of primary interest to me were the complex shadows cast by the raised window sash and frame on the window’s east bricks. As Charles pointed out to me the light/shadow pattern on the center window divider (mullion) is also helpful. Nevertheless we were getting timings maybe 30 minutes or more differences. Stubborn me felt the time could be earlier before the Dallas PD Crime  lab took their photos of the nest area at near 13:17. I decided the only way to confirm the models was to put myself in the Sixth Floor Museum’s exhibit on November 22. I was able to photo the SN on the anniversary under brilliant blue sky. My determination range of error of 1:55-2:00 pm is wider than I wanted. It was later that night after study of my day’s photo work revealed that the museum’s window is 4-5” lower than when Dillard and Alyea filmed the partially open sniper’s window.

I was doubly blessed that the following day the sky was still cloudless and I was able to reproduce the timing of Lt. Day’s leaving the building and crossing Houston Street at 1:56 pm. It appears from preliminary examination of photos that Captain Fritz also left within a few minutes of Lt. Day.

Timeline, pm:
1:17      Dallas Police Crime Scene Photos
1:23       Hulls collected and placed in an evidence envelope (from Warren Commission testimony)
1:55-2:00   Tom Alyea, after he and Studebaker returned to the nest area after filming the Carcano.
1:56      Lt. Day leaves the depository, and Capt. Fritz at a similar time.

171 registered and stacked frames from the WFAA DVD with subsequent processing reveals something the size and shape of a Carcano rifle hull, as seen in the DPD crime scene photos. It is on the floor very near where hull “B” was labeled in the crime photos, but is no longer positioned nearly parallel with the ledge bricks, but rotated some 30 degrees in the direction of Alyea’s camera. It appears in the processed image between the two “L”s  of DALLAS, along the floor/brick intersection. This object is not in this position in the crime scene photos or in an especially clear photo taken from a similar location by William Allen, probably around 3 pm.


https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/3674/-?ctx=976b9fe77bac91797901f98dc91d9726997aa52c&idx=177

There is no significant floor defect in that location that could be responsible for the object. The object is not a film defect for several reasons I’d be  happy to describe if there any questions.

So, assuming the object is a hull, why is it there when presumably the hulls were already collected for evidence some 35-40 minutes earlier?

It would appear that the boxes in  recreated "Sniper's Nest" are not positioned precisely as they were in the official crime scene photo.  (IF the official police photo is actually a true photo of the scene as it appeared at about 1:15 pm on 11/22/63)

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2022, 06:18:07 PM »


Online Charles Collins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2022, 06:34:13 PM »
It would appear that the boxes in  recreated "Sniper's Nest" are not positioned precisely as they were in the official crime scene photo.  (IF the official police photo is actually a true photo of the scene as it appeared at about 1:15 pm on 11/22/63)


The box resting on the window sill in the current reconstruction in the sixth floor museum was repositioned in order to hide the webcam inside the box.

Offline Michael Walton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2022, 06:38:00 PM »
I wouldn't worry about photos and 3D recreations and current photos. The story about the shells goes into great detail here:

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e-un-smoking-the-gun

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2022, 06:38:00 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2022, 08:15:55 PM »
I wouldn't worry about photos and 3D recreations and current photos. The story about the shells goes into great detail here:

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e-un-smoking-the-gun

Thank you, Michael....   Pat Speer is one of the best and most intensive researchers....   My only criticism of Pat would be that after doing a thorough job of researching an aspect of the case he's hesitant to produce a solid conclusion. 

As far as the time of discovery of the shells aspect of the case is concerned, I doubt that the time can be determined by examining photos....Because as Luke Mooney said with a chuckle.....  " We just don't know which of the photos is authentic and which are fakes".   ......And that's the gospel truth!

The very FACT that Mooney acknowledged that the DPD created fake photos of the crime scene, speaks volumes about a conspiracy....and who was guilty of setting Lee Oswald up as the Patsy.

Good night.... Michael.

Offline Michael Walton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2022, 09:50:35 PM »
Thank you, Michael....   Pat Speer is one of the best and most intensive researchers....   My only criticism of Pat would be that after doing a thorough job of researching an aspect of the case he's hesitant to produce a solid conclusion. 

As far as the time of discovery of the shells aspect of the case is concerned, I doubt that the time can be determined by examining photos....Because as Luke Mooney said with a chuckle.....  " We just don't know which of the photos is authentic and which are fakes".   ......And that's the gospel truth!

The very FACT that Mooney acknowledged that the DPD created fake photos of the crime scene, speaks volumes about a conspiracy....and who was guilty of setting Lee Oswald up as the Patsy.

Good night.... Michael.

Correct. I've talked to him several times off line and he seems like a nice guy. There's a lot of "hatred" of him for some reason with the conspiracy folks - Greg Parker's forum you can dig in and find stuff. And yes, I've knocked him myself several times because he really researches the hell out of things. YET, it always seems "Could it be? Or not? Who knows?" It's terribly aggravating but his research is top-notch.

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10815
Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2022, 11:11:53 PM »
Because as Luke Mooney said with a chuckle.....  " We just don't know which of the photos is authentic and which are fakes".   ......And that's the gospel truth!

Source please.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Tom Alyea “What the Hull Is That?”
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2022, 11:11:53 PM »