The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Walt Cakebread]

Here are some consecutive frames from that animation:


















These frames show the fully loaded clip being pushed down and locked in place. There are six (count them) cartridges in the clip and they are all below the bottom of the receiver chamber and the level of the bottom of the bolt. This is also shown in blabbermouth's video. Simply place a seventh cartridge in the receiver chamber and slide the bolt forward. The seventh cartridge will be pushed into the firing chamber (in lieu of the top cartridge in the clip). This is also what Frazier testified.

Thank you Charles for being such a good sport and posting the still shots from the cut away....

Here is the one that shows the clip all the way down in the magazine and the clip latch latched...



Please notice that the top of the top cartridge in the clip, is slightly above the bottom of the retracted bolt....So when the bolt is pushed forward the elevator (which is pushing the stack of cartridges upward ) will feed that top cartridge up and into the annular space ( and the spent shell extractor )   on the face of the bolt.    Then the cartridge will be married to the bolt and the assembly will can be inserted into the firing chamber.    This is the only way that the cartridge can be loaded into the chamber

ie;... The cartridge MUST be pushed up into the face of the bolt from below the bolt.     And when there are six cartridges in the clip there is no room to place a seventh round on top of the six.

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, that is my opinion also. One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

However, if the cutaway animation is accurate, then another possibility is that your idea of the knob being pushed up by lowering the rifle between the boxes seems more likely. This is because the cutaway animation shows the firing mechanism being cocked as a result of raising the bolt knob up. And if it is already cocked, then the amount of force required to raise the bolt knob would be much less than it would be if it was being cocked. The rifle weighs 8-pounds total. If the force needed to raise the bolt knob (on that already cocked rifle) is less than 8-pounds of force, then I think that your idea possibly exists.

One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

Surely you're not serious, Charles....Do you really believe that an assassin would stop shoving the bolt closed in mid action.

Charles, Let me express my appreciation and thank you, for your cooperating in posting very valuable information about how a carcano operates.

I doubt that you fully understand why it is impossible to load the carcano as a seven shot rifle, and that's ok....   You've been a really good sport in posting videos to attempt to support your point.   I've tried to discuss this with others in the past and I might have been more successful in talking to my dog.   I don't expect you to capitulate and agree with me when you have faith in a venerated FBI "expert" who says that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle.... But in reality you don't need to agree with anybody....Just look at the illustrations .....

[Charles Collins]

Thank you Charles for being such a good sport and posting the still shots from the cut away....

Here is the one that shows the clip all the way down in the magazine and the clip latch latched...



Please notice that the top of the top cartridge in the clip, is slightly above the bottom of the retracted bolt....So when the bolt is pushed forward the elevator (which is pushing the stack of cartridges upward ) will feed that top cartridge up and into the annular space ( and the spent shell extractor )   on the face of the bolt.    Then the cartridge will be married to the bolt and the assembly will can be inserted into the firing chamber.    This is the only way that the cartridge can be loaded into the chamber

ie;... The cartridge MUST be pushed up into the face of the bolt from below the bolt.     And when there are six cartridges in the clip there is no room to place a seventh round on top of the six.

If there is no seventh cartridge above the top of the sixth cartridge in the clip, then your description is accurate. Here is the next frame that shows how it works.





However, the elevator cannot move the cartridge upwards until it is pushed beyond the clip (as it is in the above frame). When loading the seventh cartridge, it is normal to need to push down slightly on it in order to keep the top of the sixth cartridge just below the bottom of the bolt until the bolt is past the base of the sixth cartridge. It will move that slight amount downwards and then the seventh cartridge will mate to the face of the bolt. The extractor is flush with the face of the bolt at that position (see frame below which I posted earlier in this thread). And there is no need for this cartridge to be fed from below in order to mate with the face of the bolt properly.

[Charles Collins]

One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

Surely you're not serious, Charles....Do you really believe that an assassin would stop shoving the bolt closed in mid action.

Charles, Let me express my appreciation and thank you, for your cooperating in posting very valuable information about how a carcano operates.

I doubt that you fully understand why it is impossible to load the carcano as a seven shot rifle, and that's ok....   You've been a really good sport in posting videos to attempt to support your point.   I've tried to discuss this with others in the past and I might have been more successful in talking to my dog.   I don't expect you to capitulate and agree with me when you have faith in a venerated FBI "expert" who says that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle.... But in reality you don't need to agree with anybody....Just look at the illustrations .....

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.

I'm not refusing to understand..... I have a carcano in my hand and many full clips plus spent carcano shells so I'm working with the "real mc Coy"

Oh and one other thing.... You've solved a mystery that's bugged me for decades....The dented shell...
I now know how that spent shell got dented on the bevel ....
The cut away illustration shows six cartridges in a clip in the magazine Notice where the elevator makes contact with the bottom shell....  It's right on the bevel of the cartridge.

Soooo...I believe that spent shell had at some point been loaded as the bottom shell  (spent) and in the process of pushing the clip down into the magazine, the spent shell was dented by the elevator.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.

Charles, you posted a picture of the top cartridge in a clip of six rounds.  That top round is just being picked up by the forward moving bolt.   How in the world do you propose to place a seventh round above that top cartridge ??  It is a fact that you could drop a cartridge into the chamber but then of course that sixth round that is being mated to the face of the bolt would run into the back of the cartridge that you dropped into the camber....

[Charles Collins]

Charles, you posted a picture of the top cartridge in a clip of six rounds.  That top round is just being picked up by the forward moving bolt.   How in the world do you propose to place a seventh round above that top cartridge ??  It is a fact that you could drop a cartridge into the chamber but then of course that sixth round that is being mated to the face of the bolt would run into the back of the cartridge that you dropped into the camber....

All that is needed to prevent the sixth cartridge from being engaged by the bolt is a slight downward motion. That downward motion is accomplished by pressing downward on the seventh cartridge as the bolt is beginning to move forward. Keep the downward pressure on the seventh cartridge until the face of the bolt is past the base of the sixth cartridge and is passing below the sixth cartridge. I have done this many times on other bolt action guns. And I see nothing in the diagrams that would prevent this technique from working on the Carcano.

[James Hackerott]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.