The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Charles Collins]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.

I can’t imagine why the DPD would stage that scene for Alyea. And it goes completely against what Alyea has said was the attitude of the officers toward him and his camera. In my opinion, a more likely explanation is that the rifle was simply tilted over, in order to view the side of it, before Day attempted to lift it.

[Dan O'meara]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.

Hi James, in Reply #17 I posted a video I'd made from all the pieces of Alyea's footage I could find regarding the discovery of the rifle.
It starts with Fritz stepping into the rifle's hiding place, there is a shot which shows his legs and the rifle is seen on the floor in the upright position. This is taken before Day picks the rifle up.
The notion that this was re-staged for Alyea is a non-starter [IMO]

[Jim Hawthorn]

This guy puts in a single round in an empty MC AND into an MC with a full clip:

[Charles Collins]

This guy puts in a single round in an empty MC AND into an MC with a full clip:

Thanks, this shows that Frazier was correct regarding loading single shots. It doesn't appear to me that this guy actually loaded seven cartridges. But I believe that he did show how it could be done. It is a little trickier than it was for me on more modern guns. I attribute that to the size and shape of the extractor. Here is a screenshot from the video that gives us a better idea of what it is than the diagrams do.





I think I have a better idea of where Walt is coming from now. Thanks again!

[Walt Cakebread]

This guy puts in a single round in an empty MC AND into an MC with a full clip:

This guy puts in a single round in an empty MC AND into an MC with a full clip:

COUNT the cartridges....He has FIVE in the clip and ONE that he manipulates into the face of the bolt WITH THE CLIP OUT of the rifle....I've always said that the single round MUST be fed to the face of the bolt from BELOW the bolt....and that's exactly what he does.    But he couldnt then oprn the bolt and insert a full clip of six rounds without extracting the one that he placed in the chamber...

[Jim Hawthorn]

I think I have a better idea of where Walt is coming from now. Thanks again!

I haven't. The fact that one unfired round was found in the chamber is no big deal. The absence of scratches from the elevator would be one thing but how to know if scratches are left every time on every MC?

[Walt Cakebread]

Thanks, this shows that Frazier was correct regarding loading single shots. It doesn't appear to me that this guy actually loaded seven cartridges. But I believe that he did show how it could be done. It is a little trickier than it was for me on more modern guns. I attribute that to the size and shape of the extractor. Here is a screenshot from the video that gives us a better idea of what it is than the diagrams do.





I think I have a better idea of where Walt is coming from now. Thanks again!

The guy mentions the extractor several times...Because he knows the the extractor is the problem in attempting to load seven rounds .....That extractor MUST be seated behind the rim of the cartridge.....If a person attempts  to drop a cartridge into the barrel and then close the bolt that extractor has no room to cam up and over the rim of the cartridge..( he says that) .f you watch the guy he manipulates the cartridge into the annular space on the face of the bolt  IN THE RECEIVER.... With no clip in the rifle. which allows him plenty of room to manipulate the  single cartridge.   

LOOK at the face of the bolt as he holds the bolt up to the camera.....SEE that extractor??.... When that bolt is in the firing chamber and locked around the rim of a cartridge  that extractor will not allow the bolt to close and latch on a cartridge in the chamber.

I understand that this is all very confusing for someone who doesn't have a carcano to experiment with...and most folks would believe an FBI agent before they would believe their own eyes.

[Walt Cakebread]

I haven't. The fact that one unfired round was found in the chamber is no big deal. The absence of scratches from the elevator would be one thing but how to know if scratches are left every time on every MC?

The fact that one unfired round was found in the chamber is no big deal.

You could not be more wrong!.... That live round that DROPPED OUT    DROPPED OUT of the carcano and fell at the feet of Captain Fritz speaks volumes .....   If you can't understand that ...I'm sorry.