You're absolutely right about this, Richard. But evidently most CTers don't get embarrassed very easily. (Although they certainly should.)
Along those same lines, here's a discussion I had several years ago....
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The amount of physical and circumstantial evidence that exists to this day against Lee Harvey Oswald for the murders of both President Kennedy and policeman J.D. Tippit is just too massive and comprehensive to be dismissed or ignored or swept under the rug -- even with the kind of information supplied on June 2, 1964, by Dorothy Garner.
And remember to keep asking yourself one important question --
If Lee Oswald wasn't the sixth-floor assassin, then how did the "real killer(s)" manage to remain completely out of the sight of Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner and Roy Truly and Marrion Baker following the assassination of the President?
Did the "real killer" somehow manage to make himself invisible to all of those witnesses right after the shooting? Or did the real killer (if it wasn't Oswald) decide to remain on the sixth floor for many minutes after he shot at JFK, running the fearful risk of being captured on the TSBD floor where Oswald's rifle and the three spent shells were found?
I think even most hardened conspiracy theorists would find that latter option a little hard to swallow.
Also....
It's funny to note that the conspiracy theorists don't think Lee Oswald had a prayer of getting from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository in 90 seconds, and yet those same conspiracists don't have any problem at all believing that the two women (Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles--wearing high heels too) could go from the 4th floor to the 1st floor in just 60 seconds.
And the difference in the distance travelled is just one floor (with Oswald needing to travel down four flights--from 6 to 2--while the girls need to go down three flights--from 4 to 1).
I guess the CTers just can't believe that Oswald could have traversed that ONE extra flight of stairs (and hide the rifle near the stairs) in the 30 seconds that separates LHO's time from the time the CTers like for the girls so much (1 minute flat).
Ironic, huh?
WALT CAKEBREAD SAID:
It would have taken several minutes to place the rifle in position and then cover it with paper and boxes of books.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Absolute nonsense. You make it sound like he was constructing the Pyramids.
FWIW, it's my own opinion (based on LHO's clipboard being found very near this same area of the stairs and rifle) that Oswald likely pre-arranged his rifle-stashing area near the stairwell in advance of 12:30 PM.
But even if he didn't pre-arrange it, Walt's theory is just more of the same over-the-top dreck that Walt always utilizes in order to keep from having to admit what the evidence so plainly shows--and that is:
Walt's favorite "patsy" was, in truth, the assassin of President Kennedy -- and Oswald himself hid his own rifle in those boxes before fleeing down the nearby stairway.
Simple and Occam-like. But Walt likes the "Pyramids" approach better.
More:
https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-743.html
The amount of physical and circumstantial evidence that exists to this day against Lee Harvey Oswald for the murders of both President Kennedy and policeman J.D. Tippit is just too massive and comprehensive to be dismissed or ignored or swept under the rug
Here we go again with the usual bogus blanket statement that simply isn't true. There is no physical evidence against Oswald for the murder of Kennedy. Even if it was his rifle that was found on the 6th floor, that still is not evidence of either him being on the 6th floor and/or shooting Kennedy. I was never even established that the rifle had been fired that day. The whole case against Oswald, in the Kennedy murder, is 100% speculation and assumptions.
As for the murder of Tippit, there is no physical evidence whatsoever. The revolver the DPD claimed to have taken from Oswald has no chain of custody, nor can it be proven that Oswald ever owned that revolver.
In short there is nothing massive and/or comprehensive about the physical evidence in either case. And circumstantial evidence, for the largest part is what anybody can make up to get to a narrative when there is a lack of conclusive evidence.
If Lee Oswald wasn't the sixth-floor assassin, then how did the "real killer(s)" manage to remain completely out of the sight of Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner and Roy Truly and Marrion Baker following the assassination of the President?That's an easy one; any other assassin but Oswald did not need to run down the stairs to get to the 2nd floor lunchroom for his encounter with Truly and Baker within 75 seconds after the shots. It is possible there wasn't even an assassin on the 6th floor (I know, this is sacrilegious in the eyes of the LNs, but it could be true nevertheless), but if there was one, all he needed to do is carry a fake law enforcement ID and hide in the open on the 6th floor until the room was full with other officers and then simply walk out. Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding (or need for David to misrepresent what I am saying), I am not claiming that is what actually happened, but it is a possible answer to David's question.
Perhaps now David can explain how he thinks Oswald managed to remain completely out of the sight of Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner and Roy Truly and Marrion Baker following the assassination of the President? I doubt he can, though....
Did the "real killer" somehow manage to make himself invisible to all of those witnesses right after the shooting? Or did the real killer (if it wasn't Oswald) decide to remain on the sixth floor for many minutes after he shot at JFK, running the fearful risk of being captured on the TSBD floor where Oswald's rifle and the three spent shells were found?
I think even most hardened conspiracy theorists would find that latter option a little hard to swallow.Why would that option be hard to swallow. The mere fact that you can't (or don't want to) consider such an option as feasible, doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. Hiding in plain sight is actually a good option. With the 6th floor flooding with law enforcement agents from all sorts of agencies, who would notice just another plain clothes guy with possibly a fake badge (just like the one behind the fence on the grassy knoll)? In the pandemonium that broke out after the shooting, it would be easy to just slip away unnoticed after the TSBD was full of officers.
It's funny to note that the conspiracy theorists don't think Lee Oswald had a prayer of getting from the sixth floor to the second floor of the Book Depository in 90 seconds, and yet those same conspiracists don't have any problem at all believing that the two women (Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles--wearing high heels too) could go from the 4th floor to the 1st floor in just 60 seconds. Wow, yet another wilful misrepresentation of what non-LNs think. If he was the assassin, Oswald would most certainly have been able to get to the 2nd floor lunchroom and he could even have done so in 75 seconds. Tests have shown that it was possible. And yes, it was equally possible for Adams and Styles to get down to the 1st floor in less than 60 seconds. In fact, they must have done as they were already outside the building when Truly and Baker reached the door to the stairs on the first floor. The problem with this scenario is that Oswald would have had to go down the stairs after Adams and Styles, which means that Dorothy Garner, who, by then, was standing near the stairs would most certainly have seen him. In fact, with those noisy stairs, there simply isn't a way that she could have missed him.
This is where it gets problematic for LNs such as David. There are several versions of what could have happened, but only one sequence of events actually works and fits all the known information. Let's see if David can work it out by himself or if he needs it to be explained to him.
And the difference in the distance travelled is just one floor (with Oswald needing to travel down four flights--from 6 to 2--while the girls need to go down three flights--from 4 to 1).
I guess the CTers just can't believe that Oswald could have traversed that ONE extra flight of stairs (and hide the rifle near the stairs) in the 30 seconds that separates LHO's time from the time the CTers like for the girls so much (1 minute flat).More BS.... If it was Oswald on the 6th floor, he had to cover nearly double the distance Adams and Styles did. The girls left their office through the back door, which gave them direct access to nearly the center of the 4th floor. All they needed to do was cross the room diagonally to get to the stairs. On the other hand, Oswald's route was predetermined by the boxes stored on the 6th floor. He first would have had to run from the s/n to nearly the back of the building and then turn left and run nearly the same distance again to get to the stairs. Why do you ignore this?
