Now What Mr. Trump?

[Joe Elliott]

As far as I can tell, all seven Election Deniers, running for Secretary of State in seven states, have all lost or in the process of losing.

The Election Deniers best hopes are in Arizona and Nevada. The Election Denier, Mark Finchem, in Arizona, is clearly going down to defeat. The Election Denier, Jim Marchant, has a very slim 2,000 vote lead, but with the bulk of the uncounted votes in the counties containing Las Vagas and Reno, he clearly appears doomed to me.

Also, the Election Denier Doug Mastriano running for Governor of Pennsylvania has clearly lost. This is significant because he would appoint the Secretary of State for Pennsylvania and if elected, could control the 2024 election as if he was the Secretary of State.

It appears America has dodged a bullet. If any of these clowns got elected, the 2024 votes in their state could be nullified, declared fraudulent, and appoint a Trump slate to the Electoral College. The could do  the same for any race in their state. The Election Denier and GOP candidate in Wisconsin for Governor Tim Michels was recorded (it appears he thought he was off mike) that if elected the GOP would never lose another race. If this happens, Democracy could die in those states.

Of course, there is a backup. The courts. But the courts are ultimately controlled by the conservative (6-3) U. S. Supreme Court. Would they step in to save Democracy if an Election Denier fraudulently tossed out the votes? I believe they would. The prestige they could earn in history as being the court that saved Democracy, would be immense. Their striking down of Roe vs. Wade would likely become a footnote of history. But for now, it appears we don't have to worry about that.

Of course, a devious Election Denier serving as Governor or Secretary of State could, perhaps side step the courts. Wait until the last minute, in early December before suddenly announcing that he had just confirmed what he suspected, that the election was a fraud. And awarding victory to Trump. In my opinion, if this is done, the courts should automatically strike this down. A Secretary of State must give the courts enough time to review their decision. If they don't, the votes must count.

In any case, this all seems mute. For another two years, Democracy seems secure. But it must be secured, by the voters, every two years. The election of Secretary of State is no longer a minor election. For years to come, it is the most important election. More important, in my mind, than that for Senator or Representative. A mistake made there can only hurt for two or six years and is correctable. One misstep in an election for Secretary of State could permanently destroy Democracy in that state. Democracy is the best form of government but is fragile. One bad election can destroy it. Just ask the folks who voted for Hitler just that one time. That's all it took.

[Joe Elliott]

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63563862

If Mr. DeSantis were to announce a presidential bid, Mr. Trump said he would reveal "things about him that won't be very flattering - I know more about him than anybody - other than, perhaps, his wife".

Donald Trump. President, Traitor, Insurrectionist, Fascist, and now, Blackmailer.

[Joe Elliott]

My understanding is that most Germans of that era didn't mourn the demise of democracy there. They were looking for a strongman to succeed Bismarck. That speaks to the long list of autocratic leaders they historically placed their trust in. By the time Hitler made his move, the German legislature wasn't really functional. The surrender terms imposed by the Allied Powers after WWI and the subsequent excessive inflation was seen as the failure of democracy. By 1933, Germans generally felt outside Western Democracy (though they admired the culture of America and the U.K., and kept up with technology and medical advances).

I have to wonder how much of the German Strongman tradition did Trump's ancestors soak up.

I don't know if he 'inherited' his Authoritarian beliefs, but his ex-wife, Ivana Trump, alleged said he kept a copy of Hitler's speeches by his bedside. I don't think this is passed down through genes but instead some personalities are attracted to Authoritarian beliefs, particularly if they imagine themselves as becoming a dictator.

Germany actually had a long tradition of Democratic thought, or at least a similar philosophy. Two thousand years ago, German tribes had trouble being united against the Romans because they didn't think their should be a permanent ruler. Arminius, with difficulty, managed to get the tribes united enough to defeat Varus in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, but was later assassinated for trying to seize too much control over his fellow Germans. Many Germans tried to establish Democracy but were squashed in the 'Revolution" of 1848. Some of them escaped to America where they generally supported Democracy and in many cases, fought for the Union.

I think the Kaiser did not accidentally slide into World War I, but caused it to prevent Germany from adopting Democracy. In post World War I Germany, many in Germany supported Democracy, despite:

1. President Wilson insisting that he would only negotiate with Democratic representatives. A disastrous decision, since it was liberal politicians, not the German Kaiser or his generals, who got the blame for negotiating an unfavorable peace, which they had no choice but to accept. That burden should have been placed on General Ludendorff.

2. The Great Depression, largely brought on by President Hoover's attempts to control the economy, not by the failure of Free Enterprise, caused such suffering in Germany that the German people (well, around 32 to 38 per cent of them) were willing to abandon Democracy and try Authoritarianism.

Since 1945 the people of Germany have embraced Democracy, certainly much more than the people of East Germany ever embraced Communism, despite the force the Russians exerted.

I don't think Germans have a natural tendency to choose Authoritarianism over Democracy. It just happened that Authoritarianism happened to win out during certain crossroads. Probably more due to Geography than genes. Britain had an easier path to Democracy being an island country.

[Joe Elliott]

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Trump demands new elections. And while he's at it, he should demand new primary and general elections. But this time, not endorse losers.

At his daughter's wedding tomorrow, I wonder if he will forget himself and instead of toasting the bride and groom demand new elections in Arizona.

This guy is too much. I would be embarrassed to admit I support this guy. I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from some of his recent supporters on this forum.

[Joe Elliott]

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Top Three Reasons Donald Trump is calling for the Elections of 2022 to be re-done:

3. He forget to call on the Proud Boys to screen the voters.

2. He has witnesses who saw 2,000 mules, real mules this time, dumping Blake Masters ballots into the Grand Canyon.

1. He didn't realize that his wife picks losers, something most people figured out 17 years ago.

Feel free to add to this list.

[Richard Smith]

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Trump demands new elections. And while he's at it, he should demand new primary and general elections. But this time, not endorse losers.

At his daughter's wedding tomorrow, I wonder if he will forget himself and instead of toasting the bride and groom demand new elections in Arizona.

This guy is too much. I would be embarrassed to admit I support this guy. I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from some of his recent supporters on this forum.

Trump was a creation of the corrupt political establishment that has controlled and brought the US to ruin.  If they had succeeded in their jobs, there would never have been any Trump political movement.  Many supporters turned to him as the only possible alternative option.  Trump is the only person in the modern times who had any chance to take on the political establishment and media.  What he did in 2016 was nothing short of a miracle.  Keeping Hillary Clinton out of office for eight years by defeating her in that election will forever be his greatest achievement.  We will never see another outsider elected in our lifetime.  Only oligarchs who obtain the blessing of the political establishment will ever be elected for the foreseeable future. 

No doubt Trump is often his own worst enemy, however.  The establishment baited him with conspiracy theories and then destroyed him when he overreacted.   Like Teddy Roosevelt who is remembered as a popular US president but who was resoundingly defeated in the 1912 election, Trump's time has passed.  He would be better off as kingmaker than king in the next election.  DeSantis is a very viable alternative and shares most of Trump's policies.  He is electable.  American elections have changed in a fundamental way with early voting.  The establishment has changed the system with early voting and "ranked choice" voting to minimize the chances of candidates that are not supported by the establishment.  The one narrative from this election was the success of the incumbents.   The money alone precludes most outsiders from running.  In the ongoing race for LA mayor, the candidates spent over $100 million.  That is just a reality of modern elections that played out this year.  It is almost impossible to overcome 50 days of early voting in one day.  The Dems are too incompetent to organize mass voter fraud as Trump suggests.  They are, however, finding some way to run up the margins with early voting.  If the Republicans can't figure out how to counterbalance those margins, they will be forever doomed in any competitive election. With that said, the only election result that surprised me this year was the defeat of Oz by Fetterman.  I thought even the Dems had some minimal cognitive standards but with Old Joe in office maybe that was naive.

[Joe Elliott]

Boy, these are exciting times. In the next our, Trump is going to make his big announcement. The three most likely options are:

1. Bigfoot is real because he saw one and will try to recruit them the next time he needs the Capitol stormed.

2. His big announcement that he promised us a few weeks ago is: "I have no big announcements to make in November. And in December I will have another big announcement to make."

3. That he is running for the Presidency.

Does he have a real chance? His best chance was to have the Secretary of State candidates that he endorsed to win the elections. Then he could ask, probably wouldn't even have to ask, for them to award him the state's votes, regardless of what the people voted. This chance has gone up in smoke. All of his Secretary of State candidates were defeated. All of them. And very many of the MAGA candidates in other races. But all of his Secretary of State candidates went down in flames. Even in the most Red of states, the people still want their vote to count. They may intend to vote for Trump in 2024, but they want to make the final decision on that in 2024, not in 2022.

Republican leadership has now turned against Trump, for good reason. He picked obscure candidates, mainly because they would own him the most if they won. They would have to do his bidding in helping overturn a future election. What does this mean for Trump?

Nothing.

The pattern of voting shows that Trump and MAGA candidates storm through the Republican primaries. And go down to defeat in November, except in very Red states and districts.

Will the Republican voters wise up? I don't think so. A bird in hand is not worth as much as 25 in the bush. A Trump victory in 2024 might be very unlikely, but if the unlikely is somehow pulled off, like it was in 2016, the MAGA crowd, or at least their leaders, may get permanent control of the country. By determining which states election were valid and which were fraudulent. Too much to pass up. What good is having DeSantis for four or eight years when the long term prospects of the Republicans, at least MAGA Republicans is considered bleak?

Trump is coming in November 2024. Do not miss that vote.

[Richard Smith]

Boy, these are exciting times. In the next our, Trump is going to make his big announcement. The three most likely options are:

1. Bigfoot is real because he saw one and will try to recruit them the next time he needs the Capitol stormed.

2. His big announcement that he promised us a few weeks ago is: "I have no big announcements to make in November. And in December I will have another big announcement to make."

3. That he is running for the Presidency.

Does he have a real chance? His best chance was to have the Secretary of State candidates that he endorsed to win the elections. Then he could ask, probably wouldn't even have to ask, for them to award him the state's votes, regardless of what the people voted. This chance has gone up in smoke. All of his Secretary of State candidates were defeated. All of them. And very many of the MAGA candidates in other races. But all of his Secretary of State candidates went down in flames. Even in the most Red of states, the people still want their vote to count. They may intend to vote for Trump in 2024, but they want to make the final decision on that in 2024, not in 2022.

Republican leadership has now turned against Trump, for good reason. He picked obscure candidates, mainly because they would own him the most if they won. They would have to do his bidding in helping overturn a future election. What does this mean for Trump?

Nothing.

The pattern of voting shows that Trump and MAGA candidates storm through the Republican primaries. And go down to defeat in November, except in very Red states and districts.

Will the Republican voters wise up? I don't think so. A bird in hand is not worth as much as 25 in the bush. A Trump victory in 2024 might be very unlikely, but if the unlikely is somehow pulled off, like it was in 2016, the MAGA crowd, or at least their leaders, may get permanent control of the country. By determining which states election were valid and which were fraudulent. Too much to pass up. What good is having DeSantis for four or eight years when the long term prospects of the Republicans, at least MAGA Republicans is considered bleak?

Trump is coming in November 2024. Do not miss that vote.

Trump is a US citizen.  He has every right to run for president.  The voters get to decide.   That is how a democracy works.   If he has no chance, then why worry or concern yourself with him?  DeSantis shares almost every one of Trump's policies.  It doesn't make much difference to me which Republican wins the upcoming election so long as the current incompetents who have brought the country to ruin are defeated.  How can anyone suggest things are better today than under Trump two years ago?  Inflation is at record highs.   Gas prices are double.  Around five million unknown persons have crossed the open border with no end in sight.  The stock market has crashed.  Interest rates are skyrocketing leading to a recession.  Crime is out of control.  Homeless overrun our cities (which are too dangerous for any law-abiding person to walk the streets).  There is another endless foreign war costing us trillions.  But Trump is the concern?