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Author Topic: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments  (Read 45357 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2023, 09:01:37 PM »
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No, the problem is that you are ignoring clear reference points, ignoring HSCA exhibit F-32, and ignoring where Riley and the HSCA placed the cowlick site in relation to those points (lambda and lambdoid suture). Your silly graphic has the cowlick site so far forward that it's nearly directly above the right ear! Anyone can look at Riley's graphic and see that he put the site well behind the right ear. They can also see that he put the site only 1 inch above the lambda, whereas you have the "CT Cowlick Wound Area" 2 inches above the lambda.

You see, when you guys are confronted with irrefutable photographic evidence that destroys the lone-gunman theory, you just can't face it. Instead, you see the Emperor's New Clothes and post ridiculous graphics that a child can see are bogus.

And, as I've said before, it is mighty bold of you to get on a public forum and claim that a respected and published neuroscientist couldn't tell the difference between 2 inches above the lambda and 1 inch above the lambda, and couldn't distinguish between a point on the skull that was clearly well behind the right ear and a point that was nearly directly above it. Wow. I mean for you, who thought the cerebellum was part of "the right cerebrum," to even be challenging Dr. Riley on anything is amusing.

Hmmm, in the red corner we have 1 man who isn't a forensic scientist and in the blue corner we have an accomplished medical panel with many decades of combined experience in Forensic Pathology. And the winner is Griffith's vivid imagination!!! Hahahaha!



Another factoid I find particularly amusing is that the results you so vigorously endorse from Riley, who clarified that he was working with the assumption that the autopsy photos, x-rays etc were authentic! Do you, Mr. Griffith truly believe that the medical evidence is authentic?? Or will your position forever remain flexible enough to support whatever conclusion that reinforces your latest lamebrain theory?


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48771#relPageId=3

JohnM
« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 09:25:10 PM by John Mytton »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2023, 09:01:37 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2023, 09:36:26 PM »
Hmmm, in the red corner we have 1 man who isn't a forensic scientist and in the blue corner we have an accomplished medical panel with many decades of combined experience in Forensic Pathology. And the winner is Griffith's vivid imagination!!! Hahahaha!



Another factoid I find particularly amusing is that the results you so vigorously endorse from Riley, who clarified that he was working with the assumption that the autopsy photos, x-rays etc were authentic! Do you, Mr. Griffith truly believe that the medical evidence is authentic?? Or will your position forever remain flexible enough to support whatever conclusion that reinforces your latest lamebrain theory?


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48771#relPageId=3

JohnM
Apparently the conspirators were/are able to fool the top forensic and photographic experts in the nation, people with hundreds of years of experience and who studied the original material, but some guy sitting behind a computer examining 12th generation photos is able to see through their ruse.

I'm not convinced.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2023, 10:09:08 PM »
Apparently the conspirators were/are able to fool the top forensic and photographic experts in the nation, people with hundreds of years of experience and who studied the original material, but some guy sitting behind a computer examining 12th generation photos is able to see through their ruse.

I'm not convinced.

Griffith has a long history of scouring the internet and finding evidence from an "expert" who may well be proficient in an unrelated profession, but are typically analyzing material that far exceeds their limited experience.

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2023, 10:09:08 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2023, 12:28:47 AM »
Thank you for the compliment, JohnM. I believe some people struggle with 3D visualization. Remember when Cartoon Ernie was here, and Craig and you would point out some error he made because he didn't allow for perspective? Ernie thought perspective was an LN trick.

Griffith can't see the problem with applying a 2D orthographic image (representing a level horizontal plane) to a photograph taken obliquely. Add to that the nearness of the camera to the object that induced a substantial amount of perspective.

Yeah, cartoon Ernie was quite the character but had bugger all knowledge of how perspective alters the proportions of his 3D models, for example when debating the positions of the motorcycles in relation to Kennedy's Limo, he modelled Altgens 6 from a position that was way to close and subsequently this altered the relevant distances but when I supplied a more realistic Sketchup image based on Altgens actual location he refused to acknowledge his mistake, so I politely asked him to recalculate his 3D image with the correct location of Altgens and was only met with the chirping of crickets.

And as for Craig Lamson, he was a true photographic expert who taught me a lot about image analysis, and I remember the time when he completely destroyed Weidmann's claim to be the Manager of Managers. Hilarious! 

Craig Lamson collated Martin Weidmann's claims.

LAMSON: "Wow, what a tangled mess. You own the company but need to ALLOW yourself time off and will take it even if you lose a client, but you don't really do much work because its the employees doing it all, but you like being at work, even though you don't do anything and are not needed and are just taking up space, but you don't have a real life so you just clutter up the office doing nothing. wow"


 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

JohnM

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2023, 11:35:04 AM »
Hmmm, in the red corner we have 1 man who isn't a forensic scientist and in the blue corner we have an accomplished medical panel with many decades of combined experience in Forensic Pathology. And the winner is Griffith's vivid imagination!!! Hahahaha!

Another factoid I find particularly amusing is that the results you so vigorously endorse from Riley, who clarified that he was working with the assumption that the autopsy photos, x-rays etc were authentic! Do you, Mr. Griffith truly believe that the medical evidence is authentic?? Or will your position forever remain flexible enough to support whatever conclusion that reinforces your latest lamebrain theory? JohnM

LOL! WC apologists have flexed and morphed and twisted all over the place over the years to reinforce the farcical lone-gunman theory--a theory that about 2/3 of the Western world rejects, I might reiterate.

Do I need to remind you that for years your side insisted that a bullet--from the sixth-floor window--struck slightly above the EOP? Do I need to remind you that for years your side said that the alleged magic bullet struck above the throat wound and traveled downward through the neck? Do I need to remind you that the same HSCA medical panel that you just finished praising determined that the alleged magic bullet struck below the throat wound and that the back wound shows that the bullet entered at a slightly upward angle? Do I need to remind you that your side's leading wound ballistics expert repudiated the cowlick entry site in 2005, and that many WC apologists have followed his lead? Do I need to remind you that the HSCA Photographic Evidence Panel acknowledged that the Zapruder film shows that JFK was hit before Z190, but that most WC apologists reject this observable fact because it destroys the current version of the single-bullet theory, even though the Zapruder film clearly shows JFK reacting to a wound before he disappears behind the freeway sign?

Let's consider some of the experts who have said the HSCA medical panel was wrong about the rear head entry wound's location and wrong about the wound's alleged presence on the autopsy skull x-rays:

-- Dr. Doug Ubelaker (ARRB forensic anthropologist)
-- Dr. John Fitzpatrick (ARRB forensic radiologist)
-- Dr. Pierre Finck (forensic pathologist, chief of wound ballistics at the AFIP, and one of the three JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. Larry Sturdivan (HSCA wound ballistics expert)
-- Dr. James Humes (chief of anatomic pathology at Bethesda Naval Hospital and one of the JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. J. Thornton Boswell (chief of pathology at the National Naval Medical School and one of the JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. Doug DeSalles (MD, a medical doctor who has conducted assassination-related wound ballistics tests)
-- Dr. David Mantik (PhD in physics and MD in radiation oncology with a post-doctoral fellowship in biophysics at Stanford University)
-- Dr. Cyril Wecht (forensic pathologist, former president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and a former member of the HSCA medical panel--Wecht has repudiated the cowlick entry site)
-- Dr. Robert Livingston (MD in neuroscience, a former professor at the Yale School of Medicine, a former director of the National Institute for Neurological Diseases, and the founder of the Department of Neuroscience at the University of California-San Diego)
-- Dr. Fred Hodges (a neurologic radiologist, chief of neuroradiology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, a former president of the American Society of Neuroradiology, and a former member of the Rockefeller Commission's medical panel)

This is a partial list.

Yes, as I've noted, Dr. Riley assumed the autopsy photos and x-rays were authentic, which makes his research even more devastating against your theory of the shooting. He proved that the autopsy photos destroy the cowlick entry site, that the cowlick entry site cannot explain the subcortical damage, and that the clearly separate and unconnected wound paths seen in the autopsy materials absolutely prove that two bullets hit JFK in the head.

I have already explained my view of the autopsy photos and skull x-rays. Let me do so again. Pay attention this time: The skull x-rays are indeed x-rays of JFK's skull, but we know from hard scientific evidence that they have been altered--and, as we have seen, you guys have no answer for this evidence.

The autopsy photos now in evidence are only part of the autopsy photos that were taken. We have known for years now that there was a second set of autopsy photos. The ARRB interviewed the Navy photo technician who processed the second set of autopsy photos, and several people who saw those photos said they showed a large wound in the back of the head.

The top-of-head autopsy photos destroy the cowlick site, since they show intact cerebral cortex at the site' location, proving that no bullet entered at the site. I am unsure whether the top-of-head photos have been doctored, as some photographic experts have argued, or whether they were taken after the illicit pre-autopsy surgery to the head and thus represent the altered condition of the top of the head and not the head's condition as it existed in Dallas (which would explain why the Parkland nurses who cleaned JFK's head wound and packed it with gauze saw no large wound above the right ear).

But, hey, if you insist that the top-of-head photos are authentic and accurate, then you must face the fact that those photos destroy the cowlick entry site. So far, your and your fellow WC apologists' only answer has been the demonstrably false claim that Riley put the cowlick site twice as far above from the lambda as the HSCA FPP did. HSCA exhibit F-32 alone destroys this bogus, dishonest claim.

Finally, I would again note (1) that you people have proved you have no explanation for the two back-of-head bullet fragments, and (2) that you cannot cite a single example in the history of forensic science where an FMJ bullet has deposited a fragment, much less two fragments, and much less from the cross section, at or near the entry site after striking a skull.

Those two fragments and the unsolvable problem they pose for the lone-gunman theory, after all, are the subject of this thread. Yet, you guys walked away from the thread after you took your first beating in it, and you only returned after I bumped it with a reminder that you guys had failed to explain how the lone-gunman theory can accommodate the two fragments. Until I resurrected this thread, you guys were content to simply ignore this crucial issue; you were quite happy to pretend it doesn't exist.






« Last Edit: December 30, 2023, 12:17:30 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2023, 11:35:04 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #173 on: December 30, 2023, 04:25:25 PM »
LOL! WC apologists have flexed and morphed and twisted all over the place over the years to reinforce the farcical lone-gunman theory--a theory that about 2/3 of the Western world rejects, I might reiterate.

Do I need to remind you that for years your side insisted that a bullet--from the sixth-floor window--struck slightly above the EOP? Do I need to remind you that for years your side said that the alleged magic bullet struck above the throat wound and traveled downward through the neck? Do I need to remind you that the same HSCA medical panel that you just finished praising determined that the alleged magic bullet struck below the throat wound and that the back wound shows that the bullet entered at a slightly upward angle? Do I need to remind you that your side's leading wound ballistics expert repudiated the cowlick entry site in 2005, and that many WC apologists have followed his lead? Do I need to remind you that the HSCA Photographic Evidence Panel acknowledged that the Zapruder film shows that JFK was hit before Z190, but that most WC apologists reject this observable fact because it destroys the current version of the single-bullet theory, even though the Zapruder film clearly shows JFK reacting to a wound before he disappears behind the freeway sign?

Let's consider some of the experts who have said the HSCA medical panel was wrong about the rear head entry wound's location and wrong about the wound's alleged presence on the autopsy skull x-rays:

-- Dr. Doug Ubelaker (ARRB forensic anthropologist)
-- Dr. John Fitzpatrick (ARRB forensic radiologist)
-- Dr. Pierre Finck (forensic pathologist, chief of wound ballistics at the AFIP, and one of the three JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. Larry Sturdivan (HSCA wound ballistics expert)
-- Dr. James Humes (chief of anatomic pathology at Bethesda Naval Hospital and one of the JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. J. Thornton Boswell (chief of pathology at the National Naval Medical School and one of the JFK autopsy doctors)
-- Dr. Doug DeSalles (MD, a medical doctor who has conducted assassination-related wound ballistics tests)
-- Dr. David Mantik (PhD in physics and MD in radiation oncology with a post-doctoral fellowship in biophysics at Stanford University)
-- Dr. Cyril Wecht (forensic pathologist, former president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and a former member of the HSCA medical panel--Wecht has repudiated the cowlick entry site)
-- Dr. Robert Livingston (MD in neuroscience, a former professor at the Yale School of Medicine, a former director of the National Institute for Neurological Diseases, and the founder of the Department of Neuroscience at the University of California-San Diego)
-- Dr. Fred Hodges (a neurologic radiologist, chief of neuroradiology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, a former president of the American Society of Neuroradiology, and a former member of the Rockefeller Commission's medical panel)

This is a partial list.

Yes, as I've noted, Dr. Riley assumed the autopsy photos and x-rays were authentic, which makes his research even more devastating against your theory of the shooting. He proved that the autopsy photos destroy the cowlick entry site, that the cowlick entry site cannot explain the subcortical damage, and that the clearly separate and unconnected wound paths seen in the autopsy materials absolutely prove that two bullets hit JFK in the head.

I have already explained my view of the autopsy photos and skull x-rays. Let me do so again. Pay attention this time: The skull x-rays are indeed x-rays of JFK's skull, but we know from hard scientific evidence that they have been altered--and, as we have seen, you guys have no answer for this evidence.

The autopsy photos now in evidence are only part of the autopsy photos that were taken. We have known for years now that there was a second set of autopsy photos. The ARRB interviewed the Navy photo technician who processed the second set of autopsy photos, and several people who saw those photos said they showed a large wound in the back of the head.

The top-of-head autopsy photos destroy the cowlick site, since they show intact cerebral cortex at the site' location, proving that no bullet entered at the site. I am unsure whether the top-of-head photos have been doctored, as some photographic experts have argued, or whether they were taken after the illicit pre-autopsy surgery to the head and thus represent the altered condition of the top of the head and not the head's condition as it existed in Dallas (which would explain why the Parkland nurses who cleaned JFK's head wound and packed it with gauze saw no large wound above the right ear).

But, hey, if you insist that the top-of-head photos are authentic and accurate, then you must face the fact that those photos destroy the cowlick entry site. So far, your and your fellow WC apologists' only answer has been the demonstrably false claim that Riley put the cowlick site twice as far above from the lambda as the HSCA FPP did. HSCA exhibit F-32 alone destroys this bogus, dishonest claim.

Finally, I would again note (1) that you people have proved you have no explanation for the two back-of-head bullet fragments, and (2) that you cannot cite a single example in the history of forensic science where an FMJ bullet has deposited a fragment, much less two fragments, and much less from the cross section, at or near the entry site after striking a skull.

Those two fragments and the unsolvable problem they pose for the lone-gunman theory, after all, are the subject of this thread. Yet, you guys walked away from the thread after you took your first beating in it, and you only returned after I bumped it with a reminder that you guys had failed to explain how the lone-gunman theory can accommodate the two fragments. Until I resurrected this thread, you guys were content to simply ignore this crucial issue; you were quite happy to pretend it doesn't exist.



Finally, I would again note (1) that you people have proved you have no explanation for the two back-of-head bullet fragments, and (2) that you cannot cite a single example in the history of forensic science where an FMJ bullet has deposited a fragment, much less two fragments, and much less from the cross section, at or near the entry site after striking a skull.
 
Those two fragments and the unsolvable problem they pose for the lone-gunman theory, after all, are the subject of this thread. Yet, you guys walked away from the thread after you took your first beating in it, and you only returned after I bumped it with a reminder that you guys had failed to explain how the lone-gunman theory can accommodate the two fragments. Until I resurrected this thread, you guys were content to simply ignore this crucial issue; you were quite happy to pretend it doesn't exist.


This might be more of a case of you just don't want to accept reality.
 
Sturdivan explains the fragments and the deforming bullet leaving a trail of fragments along its path through the brain. You are dismissing Sturdivan’s explanation?

Mr. MATHEWS. Mr. Sturdivan, taking a look at JFK exhibit F-53, which is an X-ray of President Kennedy's skull, can you give us your opinion as to whether the President may have been hit with an exploding bullet?

 Mr. STURDIVAN. Well, this adds considerable amount of evidence to the pictures which were not conclusive. In this enhanced X-ray of the skull, the scattering of the fragments throughout the wound tract are characteristic of a deforming bullet. This bullet could either be a jacketed bullet that had deformed on impact or a softnosed or hollow point bullet that was fully jacketed and, therefore, not losing all of its mass. It is not characteristic of an exploding bullet or frangible bullet because in either of those cases, the fragments would have been much more numerous and much smaller. A very small fragment has very high drag in tissue and consequently, none of those would have penetrated very far . In those cases, you would definitely have seen a cloud of metallic fragments very near the entrance wound. So, this case is typical of a deforming jacketed bullet leaving fragments along its path as it goes. Incidentally, those fragments that are left by the bullet are also very small and do not move very far from their initial, from the place where they departed the bullet. Consequently, they tend to be clustered very closely around the track of the bullet.

 ------------------------------------------------
There were traces of copper left by the jacketed copper bullet on JFK’s suit coat and shirt, but you claim the same is not possible for the back of the head wound. That is really your belief?

The FBI discovered traces of copper on both JFK’s coat and shirt where the bullet entered his back.

FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 14 (maryferrell.org)     page 85

Offline John Mytton

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #174 on: December 30, 2023, 11:01:05 PM »
even though the Zapruder film clearly shows JFK reacting to a wound before he disappears behind the freeway sign?

Here we go again, you're not only on record in this Forum saying the Zapruder Film is fake, you've got web pages about this "fakery" and even further than that, you've forever documented your opinion about the Zapruder Film in your book, yet you still use the Zapruder Film as proof of your latest "observation"?
This, Mr. Griffith is why you can't be taken seriously about any of your theories.

JohnM

Offline John Mytton

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #175 on: December 31, 2023, 12:03:25 AM »
Yes, as I've noted, Dr. Riley assumed the autopsy photos and x-rays were authentic, which makes his research even more devastating against your theory of the shooting.

The only devastation that can be seen here, is how to make heads or tails out of your latest conspiracy theory??

I, along with most LNer researchers since day one, accept the authenticated evidence as being, well, authentic. Whereas you just chop and change whichever way the wind blows, which significantly impacts the last specks of your rapidly depleting credibility.

Remember when,


Right, so massive evidence that autopsy photos F3, F5, F6, and F7 have been doctored is what you call "diversion." In your brain, massive evidence that the large head wound was in the back of the head is "diversion." Your only other answer to all this evidence is that "they were all mistaken."

And for the record, these stereoscopic morphed images are the cornerstone images that are the basis of the latest Griffith endorsed analysis.



JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #175 on: December 31, 2023, 12:03:25 AM »