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Author Topic: Succession  (Read 12002 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Succession
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2022, 04:36:51 AM »
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This mystery has to do with the succession. So, I will post it here. I just read this on pages 287-288 of “The Death of a President” by William Manchester, and I am flabbergasted. I didn’t know this, should I have known this?


Remarkably, almost none of the Kennedys’ objects had been mislaid. In spite of the two-hour anarchy virtually every article they had brought to Dallas was leaving with them; the President’s clothes, wallet, and watch, and Mrs. Kennedy’s gloves, hat and handbag were all safely stowed aboard. There was one exception. Tripping down the ramp steps toward Earle and Dearie Cabell, who were waiting on the field, Sarah Hughes was hailed by a self-assured man—she remembers him as “rather officious”—who pointed at the black binding in her hand and asked, “Do you want that?” She shook her head. “How about this?” he inquired, fingering the 3 × 5 card with the text of the oath. Neither belonged to her, and so she surrendered them, assuming that he was some sort of security man.

  He wasn’t. His identity is a riddle. How a cipher could have penetrated Jesse Curry’s cordon is difficult to understand, but he did. The venture required enterprise and luck. The spoils, however, were priceless; he left the airport with a pair of unique souvenirs. The file card is the less valuable of the two. It is an archivist’s curiosity, of interest only to collectors and museums. The book, however, is something more. It was private property, and at this writing it remains untraced. President Kennedy’s family is entitled to it and would give a lot to have it back. By now, however, the anonymous cozener may have disposed of it. Either way, the fact remains that the last item of Kennedy memorabilia to be left in Dallas, his most cherished personal possession, was his Bible.



Here is a snip from pages 284-285 that explains where the Bible came from:

Then a voice from the semicircle of witnesses asked, “What about a Bible?” The Scriptures had always been part of the ritual. There was a pause in which everyone looked at everyone else, hoping that Lem Johns’s manifest included someone of exceptional piety. Then Joe Ayres reassured them. President Kennedy always carried his personal Bible under the lid of the table between the two beds in his private cabin, and Ayres went to fetch it.

  It was an unusual copy, and very personal; even Larry O’Brien, to whom Ayres handed it, had never seen it before. The cover was of tooled leather, the edges were hand-sewn; on the front there was a gold cross and, on the inside cover, the tiny sewn black-on-black initials, “JFK.” On flights alone the President had read it evenings before snapping off the night light. Larry carried the white box in which the President had kept it down the corridor, and as he re-entered the stateroom and stepped behind Sarah Hughes she nervously began the oath. Her voice quavered, “I do solemnly swear that I will—”

  “Just a minute, Judge,” Larry said, slipping the Bible from the box and handing it to her.

  She regarded it dubiously. Kennedy, she remembered, had quoted the Bible a lot. This must be his—after all, this was his plane—and that meant it was probably Catholic. She hesitated and decided it would be all right.5



My question is: Does this still remain a mystery? Or, has this bible been located since Manchester wrote his book?

The book was NOT a Bible.....It was JFK's personal catholic missal .......

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Re: Succession
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2022, 04:36:51 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Succession
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2022, 11:56:17 AM »
The book was NOT a Bible.....It was JFK's personal catholic missal .......


Another snip (from the Forward section) of “The Death of a President” by William Manchester:

On February 5, 1964, Mrs. John F. Kennedy suggested that I write an account of the tragic and historic events in Texas and Washington ten weeks earlier. That is the first breath. The second, which must quickly follow, is that neither Mrs. Kennedy nor anyone else is in any way answerable for my subsequent research or this narrative based upon it. My relationships with all the principal figures were entirely professional. I received no financial assistance from the Kennedy family. I was on no government payroll. No one tried to lead me, and I believe every reader, including those who were closest to the late President, will find much here that is new and some, perhaps, that is disturbing. That is my responsibility. Mrs. Kennedy asked me but one question. Before our first taping session she said, “Are you just going to put down all the facts, who ate what for breakfast and all that, or are you going to put yourself in the book, too?” I replied that I didn’t see how I could very well keep myself out of it. “Good,” she said emphatically. And so I am here, weighing evidence and forming judgments. At times you may find my presence exasperating. You may decide in the end that I have been a poor judge. But you may not conclude that I have served as anyone’s amanuensis. If you doubt me you may as well stop at the end of this paragraph.

  Actually, I discovered, the Kennedy family had not been eager to have any book written about the President’s death. Understandably they needed time to heal. But shortly after the burial in Arlington various writers solicited their cooperation in such a project. It soon became apparent that volumes would appear in spite of their wishes. Under these circumstances Jacqueline Kennedy resolved that there should be one complete, accurate account. I had not been among those who had approached her. (I had been living in the Ruhr, and was writing German history.) At that time I had not even met her. However, her husband had told her about me, and she had read a magazine profile I published about him the year before his death. Robert Kennedy also remembered my acquaintance with his brother. After consultation other members of the family agreed with Mrs. Kennedy that, in light of the fact that apocryphal versions of those days were already in press, it would be wise to have a book written by an author whom the President had known. It was further decided that the work should be based upon material gathered while memories were still fresh. Hence the invitation to me.



 Apparently Manchester believed it was a bible. Here is what is in footnote 5 regarding it:


5 The myth of “the Catholic Bible” endures in Protestant America. Although such editions do exist, neither the obsolete (Douay) version nor the current (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine) rendition differs to any discernible extent from the one familiar to non-Catholics. Ecclesiastical scholars could distinguish between them, but Sarah Hughes couldn’t. Neither, in the opinion of Bishop Philip M. Hannan, could John Kennedy, and it is unlikely that the question had ever crossed the President’s mind.


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Succession
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2022, 01:48:32 PM »

Another snip (from the Forward section) of “The Death of a President” by William Manchester:

On February 5, 1964, Mrs. John F. Kennedy suggested that I write an account of the tragic and historic events in Texas and Washington ten weeks earlier. That is the first breath. The second, which must quickly follow, is that neither Mrs. Kennedy nor anyone else is in any way answerable for my subsequent research or this narrative based upon it. My relationships with all the principal figures were entirely professional. I received no financial assistance from the Kennedy family. I was on no government payroll. No one tried to lead me, and I believe every reader, including those who were closest to the late President, will find much here that is new and some, perhaps, that is disturbing. That is my responsibility. Mrs. Kennedy asked me but one question. Before our first taping session she said, “Are you just going to put down all the facts, who ate what for breakfast and all that, or are you going to put yourself in the book, too?” I replied that I didn’t see how I could very well keep myself out of it. “Good,” she said emphatically. And so I am here, weighing evidence and forming judgments. At times you may find my presence exasperating. You may decide in the end that I have been a poor judge. But you may not conclude that I have served as anyone’s amanuensis. If you doubt me you may as well stop at the end of this paragraph.

  Actually, I discovered, the Kennedy family had not been eager to have any book written about the President’s death. Understandably they needed time to heal. But shortly after the burial in Arlington various writers solicited their cooperation in such a project. It soon became apparent that volumes would appear in spite of their wishes. Under these circumstances Jacqueline Kennedy resolved that there should be one complete, accurate account. I had not been among those who had approached her. (I had been living in the Ruhr, and was writing German history.) At that time I had not even met her. However, her husband had told her about me, and she had read a magazine profile I published about him the year before his death. Robert Kennedy also remembered my acquaintance with his brother. After consultation other members of the family agreed with Mrs. Kennedy that, in light of the fact that apocryphal versions of those days were already in press, it would be wise to have a book written by an author whom the President had known. It was further decided that the work should be based upon material gathered while memories were still fresh. Hence the invitation to me.



 Apparently Manchester believed it was a bible. Here is what is in footnote 5 regarding it:


5 The myth of “the Catholic Bible” endures in Protestant America. Although such editions do exist, neither the obsolete (Douay) version nor the current (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine) rendition differs to any discernible extent from the one familiar to non-Catholics. Ecclesiastical scholars could distinguish between them, but Sarah Hughes couldn’t. Neither, in the opinion of Bishop Philip M. Hannan, could John Kennedy, and it is unlikely that the question had ever crossed the President’s mind.

Bugliosi in RH: "Author William Manchester wrote that JFK's Bible, 'his most cherished personal possession' was found on the plane, and LBJ rested his hand on it (Manchester, "Death of a President", pp. 324, 328). But Lady Bird took the "Bible" off the plane with her as a memento and later inquiry revealed it was not a Bible but a Catholic prayer book or missal which, to all appearances, had never been opened (Holland, "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes", p. 310)."

And here is Holland in "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes": "Manchester has his facts wrong, at least in this instance. The 'very personal' Bible belonging to President Kennedy - ostensibly the 'most cherished personal possession' - was in fact a Catholic missal or prayer book. To all appearances it had never been opened and it is not missing. Mrs. Johnson carried it with her as a memento when she disembarked at Andrews AFB."

The Holland book has a number of details on the events - some of which like above Manchester got wrong. It seems a lot of people were willing to say things later that they didn't want to in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. You might want to check that out in addition to Manchester's account.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2022, 01:54:41 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Succession
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2022, 01:48:32 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Succession
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2022, 02:04:36 PM »
Bugliosi in RH: "Author William Manchester wrote that JFK's Bible, 'his most cherished personal possession' was found on the plane, and LBJ rested his hand on it (Manchester, "Death of a President", pp. 324, 328). But Lady Bird took the "Bible" off the plane with her as a memento and later inquiry revealed it was not a Bible but a Catholic prayer book or missal which, to all appearances, had never been opened (Holland, "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes", p. 310)."

And here is Holland in "The Kennedy Assassination Tapes": "Manchester has his facts wrong, at least in this instance. The 'very personal' Bible belonging to President Kennedy - ostensibly the 'most cherished personal possession' - was in fact a Catholic missal or prayer book. To all appearances it had never been opened and it is not missing. Mrs. Johnson carried it with her as a memento when she disembarked at Andrews AFB."

The Holland book has a number of details on the events - some of which like above Manchester got wrong. It seems a lot of people were willing to say things later that they didn't want to in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. You might want to check that out in addition to Manchester's account.


Thanks, that does make sense to me. That Ladybird would want it as a memento. And like Manchester said, it seems unlikely that an unknown person was there at Air Force One at that particular time. If Holland is correct, I wonder if Ladybird read Manchester’s book and got a chuckle…

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Succession
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2022, 03:17:26 PM »

Thanks, that does make sense to me. That Ladybird would want it as a memento. And like Manchester said, it seems unlikely that an unknown person was there at Air Force One at that particular time. If Holland is correct, I wonder if Ladybird read Manchester’s book and got a chuckle…
Here's a fuller account from Holland of the "Bible" controversy. LBJ was worried about the upcoming release of the Manchester book and "unflattering" accounts of his behavior. One of the first ones was about the missing "Bible." So when Ladybird heard about the story I imagine she was shocked and told LBJ? LBJ was, fairly or not (I think not entirely unfairly), clearly worried about the Kennedy "mafia" spreading dirt on him through Manchester.



« Last Edit: December 23, 2022, 03:27:30 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Succession
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2022, 03:17:26 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Succession
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2022, 04:27:45 PM »
Here's a fuller account from Holland of the "Bible" controversy. LBJ was worried about the upcoming release of the Manchester book and "unflattering" accounts of his behavior. One of the first ones was about the missing "Bible." So when Ladybird heard about the story I imagine she was shocked and told LBJ? LBJ was, fairly or not (I think not entirely unfairly), clearly worried about the Kennedy "mafia" spreading dirt on him through Manchester.




Thanks again Steve, after your earlier post, I looked at essentially the same thing in Holland’s book. The very next footnote (53) cites several sources for this:

53. Liz Carpenter’s Recollections of President Kennedy’s Assassination, December 1963, Box 4; Fortas to Johnson, memo re Bible, 29 August 1966, President’s Diary—November 22, 1963, Box 2; both in Special File, LBJL.


I don’t believe it necessary to read these sources to convince me that Ladybird Johnson took the book. Manchester appears to be wrong regarding this, but I do wonder if Judge Sarah Hughes told him about her (apparently inaccurate) memory of what happened. Perhaps it was Ladybird (and not some unidentified person) who took the book and index card from her before she departed the plane? And the Judge just remembered it incorrectly. It can happen to the best of us, we are all human…

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Succession
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2022, 07:10:48 PM »
The "bible" being a "missal" is in the 1968 book "The Day Kennedy Was Shot" by Jim Bishop.

In a 1986 interview, Lawrence O'Brien said Abe Fortes and Clark Clifford had the missal.

See pages 2 and 3 Link .

The LBJ Presidential Library has the swearing-in missal. Surely Donald Trump wasn't sworn in on a religious book.


Thanks, an interesting account. Fortas and Clifford were asking O’Brien if he could identify the missal as the one on Air Force One that he gave to Judge Hughes (and he did). So, it seems to me that they wanted to be sure it was genuine. And where they got it wasn’t asked.   ???

Regardless, it seems to me that this was the property of the Kennedy family. And so I have to wonder why it wasn’t given back to the rightful owners.

Is it available for people to view at the LBJ library?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Succession
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2022, 08:25:49 PM »
 

These pictures are on Wikipedia, from their page "First inauguration of Lyndon B. Johnson" ( Link ).

According to a search, the LBJ Presidential Library has the missal on display. I don't know if the missal was gifted to the Library.



The JFK Library has some of Kennedy's whalebone scrimshaw collection, which might offend some. I suspect the Theodore Roosevelt Library has some now-dubious Native American artifacts and wildlife trophies. And so on. The Trump Library will be getting Fred Trump's KKK memorabilia.


Interesting, thanks Jerry!

Page 285 of “The Death of a President” by William Manchester snip:

It was an unusual copy, and very personal; even Larry O’Brien, to whom Ayres handed it, had never seen it before. The cover was of tooled leather, the edges were hand-sewn; on the front there was a gold cross and, on the inside cover, the tiny sewn black-on-black initials, “JFK.”

The photos show the cross to be black instead of gold. And I haven’t seen a photo of JFK’s initials. But the rest of the description (other than it is a missal, not a bible) that Manchester gave seems to be reasonably accurate. I wonder where he got such a description since the missal was missing (pun not intended).


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Re: Succession
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2022, 08:25:49 PM »