The Floor-Laying Crew

[Charles Collins]

Truly bizarre "impressions" to take from the audio, Mr. Collins! Once again, you show yourself congenitally incapable of anything other than listening, reading, thinking and arguing past the sale. Anything that doesn't comport with the official story, you just explain away with recourse to preposterous argument.

Mr. Norman explicitly distinguishes between "us" and "the carpenters". When asked to name a single "carpenter", he cannot. Yet he has no trouble (elsewhere in the interview) remembering the names Lovelady, Shelley, Givens, Williams. Ergo, the carpenters were not one of "us".

And, in the 1993 interview, he fleshes this simple fact out: outside crew, with Depository employees helping them out

Lol, the only one trying to put words in Mr. Norman's mouth is you.

Here are Mr. Norman's words: "we went up there sometimes to move stuff around for the floor construction guys. They didn’t work for the Book Depository, but if our work got slow, we would give them a hand"

Here is your 'analysis': Norman isn't actually saying the floor construction guys didn't work for the Book Depository

 

Truly bizarre "impressions" to take from the audio, Mr. Collins! Once again, you show yourself congenitally incapable of anything other than listening, reading, thinking and arguing past the sale. Anything that doesn't comport with the official story, you just explain away with recourse to preposterous argument.

 



Mr. Norman explicitly distinguishes between "us" and "the carpenters". When asked to name a single "carpenter", he cannot. Yet he has no trouble (elsewhere in the interview) remembering the names Lovelady, Shelley, Givens, Williams. Ergo, the carpenters were not one of "us".


The only name that Norman could remember in the Sixth Floor Museum Oral History interview in 1991 was Givens. Here some of my notes (not verbatim) from the interview:

Question:  Do you have any idea who was working on the sixth floor at that time? Who were some of the guys?

Answer:  Some of the guys who work here and they had some carpenters or something.


Question: Do you know who in particular was working up there?

Answer: Givens I think might have been.


Question:  Anyone else?

Answer:  No cause there was just a few of us cause a lot of the old hands were still at the other warehouse.


Question:  Do you remember who the carpenters were? No, there was one tall white guy that I used to talk boxing with. [but Norman doesn't remember his name] Norman doesn't remember seeing him that day and doesn't remember if he was there that day.

One thing that actually is explicitly clear in the Sixth Floor Oral History interview is that Norman does not remember a whole lot of the details from that day. There is nothing that explicitly distinguishes that there were "outsiders" who didn't work for the TSBD in that building that day. Based on the testimonies of all the employees who were at the TSBD that day, the only workers who were present that Norman might have labeled as being "outsiders" were the ones who normally worked at the other warehouse and had been called in to work on flooring in the Elm Street building. Yet here you are taking words which were put into Norman's mouth by Mr. Sample in 1993 and using your interpretation of them to make up all kinds of nonsense. How much more bizarre can one get?   


And, in the 1993 interview, he fleshes this simple fact out: outside crew, with Depository employees helping them out

As stated above, Mr. Sample put words in his mouth. However, again, there is nothing that explicitly says the "outside workers" were not from the other TSBD building. And, again, everyone who identified the workers on the sixth floor indicated nothing that would support your nutty idea.



Lol, the only one trying to put words in Mr. Norman's mouth is you.

No, I indicated that I was describing my impression. I haven't interviewed Mr. Norman so how could I possibly do that.



Here are Mr. Norman's words: "we went up there sometimes to move stuff around for the floor construction guys. They didn’t work for the Book Depository, but if our work got slow, we would give them a hand"

Here is your 'analysis': Norman isn't actually saying the floor construction guys didn't work for the Book Depository


What I said about the Sixth Floor Museum Oral History interview is: "There is nothing in it that led me to believe there was an “outside crew” on the sixth floor."

What I said about Mr. Sample's 1993 interview is that he tried to put words into Norman's mouth.

Those are my impressions. And I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly believe the nonsense fairytale you are trying to pass off.

[Jon Banks]

I don't think Curry had much if any say in the filing of the charges, right? That was Wade's decision along with his assistants. From his testimony it seems he wasn't consulted about the charges.

Jesse Curry from what I understand, suspected that there was a conspiracy but assisted in the cover-up. Example:

Dorothy Kilgallen later managed to obtain the Dallas Police Department radio logs for the day of the assassination. This revealed that as soon as the shots were fired in the Dealey Plaza, Curry issued an order to search the Grassy Knoll area. This contradicted what Curry had told reporters and the Warren Commission.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKcurryJ.htm

Why did Curry lie? I'm not sure. But its yet another example of people involved with the case who stuck with the official narrative in public while they suspected Oswald didn't act alone.

[Zeon Mason]

If BRW is on the 6th floor until 12:25, then it is improbable he would not have heard /seen the shooter moving a couple boxes and placing one on the SN window ledge.

So he would have to leave the 6th floor by about 12:24 so the shooter had  about 1minute to come out of hiding somewhere, traverse at least 100 ft  to get to the SN window and place the boxes.

Otherwise it’s an improbable situation of the shooter being very close to the SN while Williams is still on the 6th floor , supposedly eating his chicken at a window just a few windows over from the SN window.

[Zeon Mason]

Now, does Alan propose that BRW was never there on the 6th floor?

If BRW is not there and it’s pretty certain that Piper wasn’t there, then we have that same problem
 of Arnold Rowlands observing the “elderly negro” from 12:15-12:20 who was “hanging out” the 6th floor SE window.

The only way I found as a possible ( but low probable) solution is the following:

1. BRW was at the 6th floor SE window until approx 12:23:30.
2. Norman and Jarman begin their return from
Out front of TSBD exactly at 12:22 upon hearing a radio transmission reporting the JFK motorcade about to reach Dealey plaza.
3. The 6th floor shooter went hiding somewhere on the 6th floor after he was seen by Rowland at 12:15 at the SW window.
4. After hearing or seeing BRW enter/use elevator and departing, the shooter moved (in about 1 minute) to the SN window and placed the box on the window ledge about 12:24:45 and then sat on the box by the pipes and kept himself out of LOS. Thus at 12:25 , when Bronson film shows the side of TSBD, the box is on the window ledge, and there does not appear to be any movement of,  or shape of, a figure at the window.
5. After failure by WC to discredit Rowland, BRW was “advised” to place himself a couple windows over and the chicken bones and Dr.Pepper were moved from the SN to the new position.

[Alan Ford]

Those are my impressions. And I cannot imagine how anyone could possibly believe the nonsense fairytale you are trying to pass off.

Yawn!

Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.

He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).

Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.

[Alan Ford]

Now, does Alan propose that BRW was never there on the 6th floor?

If BRW is not there and it’s pretty certain that Piper wasn’t there, then we have that same problem
 of Arnold Rowlands observing the “elderly negro” from 12:15-12:20 who was “hanging out” the 6th floor SE window.

We don't have that problem anymore, Mr. Mason. The 'elderly Negro' was one of the outside crew working on the floor-laying project. All the Depository men, who were helping them out with the floor laying, had left the sixth floor together via an elevator race. The members of the outside crew stayed up on six.

Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams in all likelihood did not set foot on the sixth floor after leaving it for his lunch break. He was just used to explain away the chicken bones

 

[Charles Collins]

Yawn!

Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.

He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).

Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.

Which bit of Mr. Norman's statement that "the floor construction guys" "Didn’t work for the Book Depository" can you possibly be struggling with, Mr. Collins? These words all on their own rule out ALL Depository employees--------whether 401 Elm or warehouse. These men, who were helped out on the floor-laying project by some Depository employees when business was slack, came in from outside.


Taking cherry-picked words and isolating them from all of the other evidence and testimonies is not how one should form a conclusion. When considering that your interpretation of those isolated words contradicts everything else known about who was on the sixth floor (and who wasn't), it is reasonable to believe that your interpretation cannot be correct. A more reasonable explanation is that Norman is considering the Elm Street building the depository, and the separate warehouse building as something separate. Mr. Sample is the only one who used the words "outside contractor." And workers from the warehouse could be considered from "outside" the depository by Norman. Again, considering the totality of the evidence regarding who was (and wasn't) on the sixth floor that day, this is the only reasonable explanation.



He is explicitly asked in his 6FM interview to name some Depository employees who helped out specifically on 11/22/63, and on the spot can only think of Mr. Givens. (Mr. Norman did not himself help out on 11/22/63.) He is however then, immediately after this, explicitly asked to name one of the carpentry crew, and cannot name a single person, being able only to give a physical/personality description of one of these men. This again proves that he knows there were two groups of men working on the floor-laying project: "carpenters" (outside team) + Depository men (helping out).


It doesn't prove that at all. LHO couldn't remember Norman's name (as someone who he claimed walked through the domino room at his lunch time) and he had worked with him that same day. The interview with Norman was done 28-years later.



Now while Mr. Norman cannot speak with certainty to the question of who exactly was on six 11/22/63, his information that he, Mr. Williams & Mr. Jarman avoided the sixth floor for their lunch break because they had reason to expect it would be noisy, tells us a crucial fact: there were men on the sixth floor who were not expected to take their lunch hour at the same time as the Depository men. Such men cannot have been Depository employees---------they must have been members of the outside carpentry crew.


Jumping to those two conclusions is just plain nutty. 

[Jon Banks]

If BRW is on the 6th floor until 12:25, then it is improbable he would not have heard /seen the shooter moving a couple boxes and placing one on the SN window ledge.

So he would have to leave the 6th floor by about 12:24 so the shooter had  about 1minute to come out of hiding somewhere, traverse at least 100 ft  to get to the SN window and place the boxes.

Otherwise it’s an improbable situation of the shooter being very close to the SN while Williams is still on the 6th floor , supposedly eating his chicken at a window just a few windows over from the SN window.

More interestingly, if Oswald acted alone and didn't have a radio with him, how would he had known that JFK's motorcade was running a few minutes behind schedule?