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Author Topic: When the SN was built  (Read 37124 times)

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #312 on: August 02, 2023, 05:02:00 PM »
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Truly did not say that he was in the southeast corner before either the rifle or spent shells were found.

 He said: “It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell casings.”

So, essentially, all semantics aside, he is indeed admitting that he was in the sniper's nest. The issue here isn't one of semantics. The issue here is that the superintendent of the TSBD building--by his own admission--had access to the sniper's nest Before evidence was found (whether he knew or didn't know the spent shell casings were found or not.

Why was he there in the first place, and What was he doing there? are reasonable questions to ask.

Did he plant the shell casings before they were found? Did he realize at some point after planting those shell casings that he had erred and placed the wrong shell casings that would align with one rifle as oppose to the later drafting of the rifle to match the shell casings planted?  Until such time someone can put his body in the SN at a specific timeframe Truly by his own admission left his presence there open for questioning...

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can’t answer. I don’t remember when I went over there.

With good reason Mr. Truly as you rein in your slip of the tongue...

« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 05:33:07 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #312 on: August 02, 2023, 05:02:00 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #313 on: August 02, 2023, 06:44:10 PM »
So, essentially, all semantics aside, he is indeed admitting that he was in the sniper's nest. The issue here isn't one of semantics. The issue here is that the superintendent of the TSBD building--by his own admission--had access to the sniper's nest Before evidence was found (whether he knew or didn't know the spent shell casings were found or not.

Why was he there in the first place, and What was he doing there? are reasonable questions to ask.

Did he plant the shell casings before they were found? Did he realize at some point after planting those shell casings that he had erred and placed the wrong shell casings that would align with one rifle as oppose to the later drafting of the rifle to match the shell casings planted?  Until such time someone can put his body in the SN at a specific timeframe Truly by his own admission left his presence there open for questioning...

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can’t answer. I don’t remember when I went over there.

With good reason Mr. Truly as you rein in your slip of the tongue...


No, Truly does not say that he was in the sniper’s nest period. He was asked about the southeast corner, which includes the area around the sniper’s nest. And, again, it is before he learned that they had discovered the rifle and spent shells. When did he learn about the discoveries? Read his testimony!

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #314 on: August 04, 2023, 04:23:05 PM »

No, Truly does not say that he was in the sniper’s nest period. He was asked about the southeast corner, which includes the area around the sniper’s nest. And, again, it is before he learned that they had discovered the rifle and spent shells. When did he learn about the discoveries? Read his testimony!


With the southeast corner in mind, what part of the following exchange excuses Roy Truly from being in the southeast corner (where the sniper's next was) ---->

Mr. Belin: When you got up on the sixth floor did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TBULY. No, sir ; I sure didn’t.

So, if he wasn't over in the southeast corner when he initially went up to share that the wrongly-accused was missing that means sometime before making that particular trip upstairs he was there previously.

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?

This is the location of the sniper's nest...

Mr. TRULY. That I can’t answer. I don’t remember when I went over there.
It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the
spent shell cases. It could have been at the time I went up and told them about
Lee Harvey Oswald being missing. I cannot remember. But I didn’t know it.
I didn’t see them flnd them, and I didn’t know at the time-1 don’t know how
long they had the things.


Now, amid realizing his slip of the tongue gaff, he now wants to quickly rule out the multiple times that he had access to the sniper's nest, so he pivots and now wants us to believe he was over in the sniper's nest, quote, It could have been at the time I went up and told them about Lee Harvey Oswald being missing, unquote.

Make up your mind Roy Truly. He should have been pressed on precisely When and  Why he was over in the sniper's nest, and What exactly was he doing there. On his initial trip Was he making sure Mr. Dougherty (Jack) planted the right shell casings to match the planted rifle?

Or was he planting the shell casings himself?  because he considered his employee inept to follow simple instructions on where to place the shell casings and then the rifle? Either way the shell-casings didn't match the Mauser rifle. Oops! Do over...insert correct rifle to match erroneously placed shell-casings.

By his own admission Roy Truly places himself over in the sniper's nest ---->

I went over there.

What part of that admission doesn't place him there?

He was there alright, with adequate enough time to spare before the "evidence" was found.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2023, 04:28:53 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #314 on: August 04, 2023, 04:23:05 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #315 on: August 06, 2023, 04:45:14 AM »
The problem is the 12:15 time that Arnold Rowland claims seeing the elderly negro at the SE window , at the same time seeing the white or latin gunman at the SW window.

There’s no way that’s mistaking Harold Norman or James Jarman on the 5th floor since they didn’t get up there until about 12:23 at the earliest.

And so that leaves Bonnie Ray Williams.

However BRW never places himself at the SE window, nor was  BRW wearing a green and red “plaid” shirt, nor had any dust fallen in his hair yet, nor was BRW leaning out the window he was at.

Options:
1. Rowland completely fabricated a story
2. Rowland embellished an original statement sighting ONLY ONE man, the SW window gunman , by adding the of sighting a 2nd man, the elderly balding negro , wearing a red and green plaid shirt,  whom was leaning out the window.
3. Bonnie Ray Williams lied about being on the 6th floor from 12:05-12:20 approx.
 4. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor , yet unaware that 2 men were on either side of him, one at the SE window “leaning out”  and the other one, with a rifle in hand , almost reaching the SW within about 5ft-7ft of it.
3. BRW was aware of 2 men and decided for some reason not to say anything about it.
4. If Rowland embellished , and therefore only a  SW window gunman was on the 6th floor, then it’s possible that BRWs story is completely true, and he did not see a SW  gunman because the gunman stopping  5ft-7ft from the SW window , beyond the right hand peripheral view of BRW whom was likely looking forward out of the window at  Dealey plaza.


Online Charles Collins

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #316 on: August 06, 2023, 01:21:10 PM »
The problem is the 12:15 time that Arnold Rowland claims seeing the elderly negro at the SE window , at the same time seeing the white or latin gunman at the SW window.

There’s no way that’s mistaking Harold Norman or James Jarman on the 5th floor since they didn’t get up there until about 12:23 at the earliest.

And so that leaves Bonnie Ray Williams.

However BRW never places himself at the SE window, nor was  BRW wearing a green and red “plaid” shirt, nor had any dust fallen in his hair yet, nor was BRW leaning out the window he was at.

Options:
1. Rowland completely fabricated a story
2. Rowland embellished an original statement sighting ONLY ONE man, the SW window gunman , by adding the of sighting a 2nd man, the elderly balding negro , wearing a red and green plaid shirt,  whom was leaning out the window.
3. Bonnie Ray Williams lied about being on the 6th floor from 12:05-12:20 approx.
 4. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor , yet unaware that 2 men were on either side of him, one at the SE window “leaning out”  and the other one, with a rifle in hand , almost reaching the SW within about 5ft-7ft of it.
3. BRW was aware of 2 men and decided for some reason not to say anything about it.
4. If Rowland embellished , and therefore only a  SW window gunman was on the 6th floor, then it’s possible that BRWs story is completely true, and he did not see a SW  gunman because the gunman stopping  5ft-7ft from the SW window , beyond the right hand peripheral view of BRW whom was likely looking forward out of the window at  Dealey plaza.



Memories of human beings are often fallible. There are several aspects of Arnold Rowland’s testimony in which the evidence shows he misremembered some items. However, personally, I believe that he probably did see a man with a rifle standing back from the SW corner window around 12:15. I think that he got a lot of the details (that Spector asked about), of the rifleman that he said he saw, correct (as indicated by my 3D computer model). And Arnold Rowland did say something about the rifleman to his wife at the time; and his affidavit of 11/22/63 indicates that he saw a rifleman. There are some boxes between the position of the rifleman, as Rowland describes it, and BRW’s stated position that would tend to block BRW’s view of the rifleman’s indicated (by Arnold Rowland) position. So, I personally believe that Arnold Rowland correctly remembered some details, but remembered some other details incorrectly. This would not be unusual for most any human being’s memory capabilities.

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #316 on: August 06, 2023, 01:21:10 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #317 on: August 07, 2023, 08:28:43 AM »
I think I agree that Rowlands initial earliest statement of seeing the SW window gunman is probably true, while his later statements that add the elderly balding negro are either some confused post shots observation of Norman at the SE window or are some kind of embellishment (per Rowlands wife’s statements)

It seems less probable that BRW was untruthful, or that BRW would have failed to notice TWO nefarious characters on either side of him on the 6th floor, especially a SE window person who is leaning out the window no less, which would require he probably had to to RAISE the window , which most likely would cause noise and also he would not be so hidden behind a stack boxes  if he did this action , plus, being only about 30 ft from BRW as well.
 
So the situation appears to be just one gunman whom  had intent to shoot from the SW 6th floor window originally , but was basically thwarted unexpectedly by the presence of BRW on the floor.

However, it’s not exactly leading to any conclusion (for me ) that the gunman was Oswald.

In fact, BECAUSE the SW gunman seems to have been surprised by the presence of BRW on the floor, suggests someone who was NOT very familiar with where other TSBD employees would be at that time and also someone who had NOT taken time to make SURE the floor was clear.

Speculatively, it’s as though a gunman had just  arrived to the scene within 15 minutes  , without much pre inspection  of the scene, intending to “shoot and scoot”.

The reasons  to choose the SW window are as follows:

1. The SW allows a very close shot to the forehead of JFK overtop of the windshield of the limo as it slows to make that acute left turn onto Elm st.
2. The angle of the rifle is such that the gunman can be completely hidden in shadow, standing In the SW corner and the rifle theoretically would be difficult to see also as not much part of the barrel ( if any ) would have to be sticking out the window.
3. Such a close shot only 100 ft ( 33 yds) away approx at the slowest movement of the target that would occur , would be a high probability of a 1 shot kill.
4. Because of the high angle from the SW window with LOS essentially in front of and over top of the windshield, the location of the SS agents and accompanying motorcycle escort police would offer virtually no possibility of obstruction even if there had been SS agents riding directly on the JFK limo.

Propositions:
A.  The gunman more probably had a rifle with a scope that was larger and center mounted, thus was seen by Rowland  as appearing similar to a 30.06 Hunting rifle ( vs a smaller side mounted scope of a MC rifle that is less probably seen from 280 ft distance).
B. The gunman arrived to the scene within 15 minutes with plan to shoot and scoot. He chose the SW window originally without having done any preliminary surveillance of the 6th floor, thinking erroneously it would be clear.
C. The choice of the SW window was for the angle that allows a high probability of 1shot kill and also a possible plan to drop the rifle out the building from a west window near the NW corner staircase to a car parked below beside the annex portion of the loading dock. The gunman can then either descend staircase or use an elevator.
D. The gunmans plan was thwarted by presence of BRW, which forced the gunman to relocate himself to the SE window and to wait for BRW to leave the floor.
E. The escape plan for the gunman may have remained the same, the rifle dropped out the NW window and the gunman goes down by staircase or uses elevator.
F. The rifle used was probably one which could be disassembled and concealed in a much smaller container than an MC rifle, which may explain not actually using an MC rifle ( if intended to set up Oswald)

If any of the above are plausible then Alan Fords theory  about the gunman being a contracted floor crew member might be a plausible alternative. Such person arriving late to the scene in pretense, possibly even wearing a work uniform of some sort and concealing rifle disassembled in a regular tool box.


Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #318 on: August 07, 2023, 04:00:04 PM »
The problem is the 12:15 time that Arnold Rowland claims seeing the elderly negro at the SE window , at the same time seeing the white or latin gunman at the SW window.

There’s no way that’s mistaking Harold Norman or James Jarman on the 5th floor since they didn’t get up there until about 12:23 at the earliest.

And so that leaves Bonnie Ray Williams.

However BRW never places himself at the SE window, nor was  BRW wearing a green and red “plaid” shirt, nor had any dust fallen in his hair yet, nor was BRW leaning out the window he was at.

Options:
1. Rowland completely fabricated a story
2. Rowland embellished an original statement sighting ONLY ONE man, the SW window gunman , by adding the of sighting a 2nd man, the elderly balding negro , wearing a red and green plaid shirt,  whom was leaning out the window.
3. Bonnie Ray Williams lied about being on the 6th floor from 12:05-12:20 approx.
 4. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the 6th floor , yet unaware that 2 men were on either side of him, one at the SE window “leaning out”  and the other one, with a rifle in hand , almost reaching the SW within about 5ft-7ft of it.
3. BRW was aware of 2 men and decided for some reason not to say anything about it.
4. If Rowland embellished , and therefore only a  SW window gunman was on the 6th floor, then it’s possible that BRWs story is completely true, and he did not see a SW  gunman because the gunman stopping  5ft-7ft from the SW window , beyond the right hand peripheral view of BRW whom was likely looking forward out of the window at  Dealey plaza.

Does the research community have any same day photos of the clothing, particularly the shirt Mr. Piper (Eddie) donned that afternoon.

If so it wouldn't surprise if he was, quote, "wearing a red and green plaid shirt", unquote. Mr. Piper certainly fits the "elderly" "balding" man of colour as well. Moreover, there was a young teenage eyewitness that afternoon (cannot recall his name at the moment, he can be seen riding on the back of a policeman's-motorcycle No. 99 in some photos) who also described an individual with balding hair in and/or near the sniper's nest. Sounds consistent with Mr. Rowlands observation as well.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 04:00:42 PM by Alan J. Ford »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #319 on: August 07, 2023, 04:24:53 PM »
Amos Euins

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Re: When the SN was built
« Reply #319 on: August 07, 2023, 04:24:53 PM »