Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63

[Richard Smith]

Get your head out.... Do you actually believe that LBJ knew about LHO and Mexico City prior to talking to Hoover on 11/23/63??    If you believe that LBJ was following LHO's movements in September of 63...Then please explain WHY  LBJ would have been interested in LHO at that time?

CIA and WWIII. 

[Richard Smith]

I do believe there is more to be learned about Oswald's Mexico City visit.  This wasn't some idol trip that Oswald took.  He had spent months preparing a resume to impress the Cubans into allowing him to travel to Cuba.  That was his primary objective in the months leading up to the visit including his attempt on Walker.  I find it difficult to believe that Oswald didn't play all his cards with the Cubans.  That might have included acknowledging that he was willing to commit acts of violence including political assassinations.  He probably would not have gone so far as to confess to the Walker attempt but he might have implied to them that he was willing or had committed such acts.  The Cubans probably thought he was a complete nut and dismissed his claims.  After the fact, however, both the Cubans and CIA would have had ample reason to bury any such revelation.  The Cubans likely thought they were being set up by the US for the assassination as a pretext for an invasion.  The CIA would have done some major CYA to have not taken more seriously any threat of political violence made by Oswald to the Cubans.  No conspiracy here but CYA by everyone with a shared interest in not disclosing that they had cause to know that Oswald might be violent nut.  I don't believe Oswald, however, made any direct threat to JFK.  He would have had no reason to believe at the time that any such opportunity would arise.  More likely a generalized statement that he was willing to commit political violence including assassinations. 

[Walt Cakebread]

CIA and WWIII.

Are U serious!!....I asked why LBJ ( not the CIA)  would have had in interest in Lee Oswald in September of 63...

LBJ was merely the VP.... and his mind was on saving his neck from the Bobby Baker mess...

[Richard Smith]

Are U serious!!....I asked why LBJ ( not the CIA)  would have had in interest in Lee Oswald in September of 63...

LBJ was merely the VP.... and his mind was on saving his neck from the Bobby Baker mess...

LOL.  You asked two questions.  How did LBJ know and why would be care.  I answered those idiotic questions.  LBJ didn't have an interest in Oswald's visit in Sept. '63.  He raised this topic AFTER Oswald assassinated JFK.  You really don't think it would have been of interest and potential concern to LBJ to learn that Oswald had been in contact with Cuba and Russia just a few months prior to assassinating the president?  Unreal.

[Walt Cakebread]

LOL.  You asked two questions.  How did LBJ know and why would be care.  I answered those idiotic questions.  LBJ didn't have an interest in Oswald's visit in Sept. '63.  He raised this topic AFTER Oswald assassinated JFK.  You really don't think it would have been of interest and potential concern to LBJ to learn that Oswald had been in contact with Cuba and Russia just a few months prior to assassinating the president?  Unreal.

"He raised this topic AFTER Oswald assassinated JFK. "

Lyndon B. Johnson: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

That's correct.....And he asked Hoover about LHO in Mexico City BEFORE   BEFORE  that subject had been broached...

And my question for you was.....  HOW did LBJ know about the Mexico City aspect ?   

[Richard Smith]

"He raised this topic AFTER Oswald assassinated JFK. "

Lyndon B. Johnson: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

That's correct.....And he asked Hoover about LHO in Mexico City BEFORE   BEFORE  that subject had been broached...

And my question for you was.....  HOW did LBJ know about the Mexico City aspect ?

I'm not sure what you are babbling about.  This was on a call AFTER the assassination. The CIA and FBI were aware of Oswald's visit to the embassy.  Oswald was asked about it by the FBI.  What would be so mysterious about LBJ learning about this concerning event AFTER the assassination from the FBI or CIA and wanting an update?  It likely would have been one of the first things told to him about Oswald after he was identified as the suspect.  The suspected presidential assassin was known to have visited the Cuban and Russian embassies just months before the act.  It could have meant WWIII if the Cubans or Russians were linked to the assassination.  Probably the most critical fact from LBJ's perspective at that moment.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I'm not sure what you are babbling about.  This was on a call AFTER the assassination. The CIA and FBI were aware of Oswald's visit to the embassy.  Oswald was asked about it by the FBI.  What would be so mysterious about LBJ learning about this concerning event AFTER the assassination from the FBI or CIA and wanting an update?  It likely would have been one of the first things told to him about Oswald after he was identified as the suspect.  The suspected presidential assassin was known to have visited the Cuban and Russian embassies just months before the act.  It could have meant WWIII if the Cubans or Russians were linked to the assassination.  Probably the most critical fact from LBJ's perspective at that moment.

On the question of when LBJ learned about Oswald's visit to MC.

From Max Holland's book "The Assassination Tapes": "During the [Saturday] morning briefing with McCone, Johnson learned some information from the Central Intelligence Agency that is not yet public knowledge - namely that six weeks prior to the assassination the CIA station in Mexico City observed Oswald visiting the Soviet embassy in the Mexican capital."

So LBJ learned about the Oswald visit *before* having the later call that Saturday (11/23) with Hoover on the latest news/information.

What's a bit interesting is that apparently Hoover/McCone did not know at that time that Oswald had also gone to the Cuban consulate. LBJ was only told about the Soviet Embassy visit. So that bit of information hadn't gotten to them yet.

Correction: LBJ Hoover had that crazy letter that Oswald sent to the Soviet Embassy in Washington. He mentions the Cuban consulate visit there. So Hoover knew about it but doesn't mention if in the call with LBJ? Or was that edited out?

[Charles Collins]

On the question of when LBJ learned about Oswald's visit to MC.

From Max Holland's book "The Assassination Tapes": "During the [Saturday] morning briefing with McCone, Johnson learned some information from the Central Intelligence Agency that is not yet public knowledge - namely that six weeks prior to the assassination the CIA station in Mexico City observed Oswald visiting the Soviet embassy in the Mexican capital."

So LBJ learned about the Oswald visit *before* having the later call that Saturday (11/23) with Hoover on the latest news/information.

What's a bit interesting is that apparently Hoover/McCone did not know at that time that Oswald had also gone to the Cuban consulate. LBJ was only told about the Soviet Embassy visit. So that bit of information hadn't gotten to them yet.

Very shortly after LHO’s arrest, FBI agent Hosty saw a communique regarding the Mexico City visit to the Soviets. This is from Hosty’s book, “Assignment Oswald”. And he writes that he had already read something about it in October. It appears that a source for this information was the CIA/FBI interception of LHO’s letter to the Soviet Embassy in Washington. But that letter wasn’t yet written in October, it was written November 9th, 1963. So if Hosty had already read something about a meeting in Mexico City in October, it seems to me that it would have been based on the surveillance. And that they had identified who it was that they were observing. Which makes the submitted photo of the guy in Mexico City (who obviously wasn’t LHO) even more bizarre.


TIME: 2:15 P.M.

  A hand clutched my elbow. I spun; Howe was in my face. “They’ve just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they’re booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff. Officer’s name was Tippit.”

  It took me only a second or two to shift from the extreme right wing to Lee Oswald. Lee Oswald was a Communist who had defected to the Soviet Union and returned three years later with a Russian wife, Marina. I had an active file on both Oswalds, who were both considered espionage risks. I had learned on November 1 that Oswald worked at one of the Texas school book depository buildings in Dallas. I remembered thinking Tippit’s and Kennedy’s killings were related, and then it hit me like a load of bricks.

  “That’s him! Ken, that must be him. Oswald has to be the one who shot Kennedy!” Oswald was the SOB who shot the president. We had a bead on the assassin.

  “Listen,” Howe said. “Do you have the Oswald file?”

  “No, I don’t. It should be in the active file cabinet.”

  Howe and I rushed over to the cabinet. The file was gone, which meant that the mail clerk probably had it for incoming mail purposes. We hurried to his office and started frantically looking for it. Loeffler, the only other supervisor in the office, joined us in the search, found the file, and handed it to me and Howe. Paper-clipped to the top we found a one-page communique from the Washington, D.C., field office. While Howe pulled out his reading glasses, I began reading the communique, which summarized a letter written by Oswald to the Soviet Embassy in Washington. The letter had been intercepted by the FBI, then read and copied by an intelligence agent before it was sent along to the Russians.

  According to the communique, Oswald had written that he had been in Mexico City and had spoken with “Comrade Kostine.” I had read something about this Mexico City meeting in October, but had been forbidden by FBI policy from questioning Oswald about it, as it would tip off Oswald, and presumably the Soviets, to our intelligence sources and methods in Mexico.