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Author Topic: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?  (Read 63670 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #552 on: July 21, 2023, 03:23:32 AM »
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Mr. BELIN. Had you ever done a paraffin test on a face before?
Mr. DAY. No; actually--had it not been for the particular type of case and this particular situation here we would not have at this time. It was just something that was done to actually keep from someone saying later on, "Why didn't you do it?" Actually, in my experience there, shooting a rifle with a telescopic sight there would be no chance for nitrates to get way back or on the side of the face from a rifle.
Mr. BELIN. Well, the chamber, the nature of the chamber of the rifle, would that have anything to do with that?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. In what way?
Mr. DAY. A rifle such as that one we are talking about here from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, in my opinion, would not throw nitrates back to where a man's face was when he is looking through a telescopic sight.


"Today, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn called the FBI Laboratory and spoke to SA John F. Gallagher. He advised that since the assassination a large part of their efforts have been directed to the determination of powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He advised that there appears that triple firing of this rifle will leave unambiguous positive tests every time on the paraffin casts.” — Jevons to Conrad memo, 2/27/64

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #552 on: July 21, 2023, 03:23:32 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #553 on: July 21, 2023, 04:09:42 AM »
Not only no residue ( visibly) found on Oswald’s hands , but nothing on his jacket either , which he supposedly was wearing ,  none of the witness  at the TIPPIT scene ( I spelled it right this time for Mytton:) , give any detail about the jacket sleeves being rolled up, then there theoretically would have been some trace of residue on the jacket?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #554 on: July 21, 2023, 04:16:31 AM »
"Today, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn called the FBI Laboratory and spoke to SA John F. Gallagher. He advised that since the assassination a large part of their efforts have been directed to the determination of powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He advised that there appears that triple firing of this rifle will leave unambiguous positive tests every time on the paraffin casts.” — Jevons to Conrad memo, 2/27/64

Testing with the actual weapon that Oswald owned and used!



Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make a test with the exhibit, with the rifle, 139, to determine whether that left a powder residue on the right cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Will you describe that test?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; this time we ran a control. We were interested in running a control to find out just what the possibility was of getting a positive reaction after a person has thoroughly washed their hands. Mr. Killion used green soap and washed his hands, and we ran a control, both of the right cheek and of both hands.
We got many reactions on both the right hand and the left hand, and he had not fired a gun that day.
Mr. EISENBERG. This was before firing the rifle?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. That was before firing the rifle. We got no reaction on the cheek.
Mr. EISENBERG. Also before firing the rifle?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. We fired the rifle. Mr. Killion fired it three times rapidly, using similar ammunition to that used in the assassination. We reran the tests both on the cheek and both hands. This time we got a negative reaction on all casts.
Mr. EISENBERG. So to recapitulate, after firing the rifle rapid-fire no residues of any nitrate were picked off Mr. Killion's cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct
, and there were none on the hands. We cleaned off the rifle again with dilute HCl. I loaded it for him. He held it in one of the cleaned areas and I pushed the clip in so he would not have to get his hands near the chamber--in other words, so he wouldn't pick up residues, from it, or from the action, or from the receiver. When we ran the casts, we got no reaction on either hand or on his cheek. On the controls, when he hadn't fired a gun all day, we got numerous reactions.


And again!

Mr. EISENBERG. So to recapitulate, after firing the rifle rapid-fire no residues of any nitrate were picked off Mr. Killion's cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct


JohnM

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #554 on: July 21, 2023, 04:16:31 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #555 on: July 21, 2023, 04:18:49 AM »
Not only no residue ( visibly) found on Oswald’s hands , but nothing on his jacket either , which he supposedly was wearing ,  none of the witness  at the TIPPIT scene ( I spelled it right this time for Mytton:) , give any detail about the jacket sleeves being rolled up, then there theoretically would have been some trace of residue on the jacket?

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( I spelled it right this time for Mytton:)

Not for me, but to show respect for a man killed in the line of duty.

JohnM

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #556 on: July 21, 2023, 04:39:53 AM »
Yes , whatever other disagreements on the shooting of Tppit,  this DPD officer was unjustly shot down without provocation, as his revolver was not in his hand , nor did any witness say they saw Tippit with gun in his hand pointing it at the man they think looked like Oswald.

Now, what about the probability of residue being VISIBLE on the hands of Oswald and absence of any residue on the jacket sleeve?

And what about the positive paraffin test results of Oswald’s hand vs the negative test on his cheek?

The negative result reasonably exonerates Oswald of having fired the MC rifle , while the positive result on his hands could just be from handling the revolver that he had in hand when DPD officer McDonald confronted Oswald in the Texas theater.


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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #556 on: July 21, 2023, 04:39:53 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #557 on: July 21, 2023, 04:53:34 AM »
Yes , whatever other disagreements on the shooting of Tppit,  this DPD officer was unjustly shot down without provocation, as his revolver was not in his hand , nor did any witness say they saw Tippit with gun in his hand pointing it at the man they think looked like Oswald.

Now, what about the probability of residue being VISIBLE on the hands of Oswald and absence of any residue on the jacket sleeve?

And what about the positive paraffin test results of Oswald’s hand vs the negative test on his cheek?

The negative result reasonably exonerates Oswald of having fired the MC rifle , while the positive result on his hands could just be from handling the revolver that he had in hand when DPD officer McDonald confronted Oswald in the Texas theater.

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absence of any residue on the jacket sleeve?

Beyond testing Oswald's hands, why do you feel it necessary to check the jacket sleeve? The jacket was confirmed by Marina to be owned by Oswald. Btw why do you think Oswald would discard his jacket so close to where Tippit was killed?

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vs the negative test on his cheek?

Read my previous post.

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while the positive result on his hands could just be from handling the revolver that he had in hand when DPD officer McDonald confronted Oswald in the Texas theater.

The DPD said that the pattern of residual matter was typical of firing a weapon.

JohnM

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #558 on: July 21, 2023, 05:46:56 AM »
Which should have more weight? One test by the WC expert Cunningham that concluded a negative test after firing a rifle 3 times or multiple tests by Dr. Guinn that indicate a high probability of positive test?

As far the jacket, since it cannot be verified who found the jacket and since there  was no residue of dirt or oil on the jacket even though it was supposedly thrown under a car in a parking lot, and there was no indication of any gunpowder residue either, and since the jacket (in one recorded camera filming) in the hand of a cop is clearly too WHITE to be anywhere near light blue gray, and since Earlene Roberts could not verify the jacket as the one she saw Oswald “zipping up” as he left the boarding room approx 1:04 pm,

Then the jacket is doubtful as evidence of Oswald being at the at the scene of 10th and Patton , shooting Tippit.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #559 on: July 21, 2023, 07:34:33 AM »
Which should have more weight? One test by the WC expert Cunningham that concluded a negative test after firing a rifle 3 times or multiple tests by Dr. Guinn that indicate a high probability of positive test?

As far the jacket, since it cannot be verified who found the jacket and since there  was no residue of dirt or oil on the jacket even though it was supposedly thrown under a car in a parking lot, and there was no indication of any gunpowder residue either, and since the jacket (in one recorded camera filming) in the hand of a cop is clearly too WHITE to be anywhere near light blue gray, and since Earlene Roberts could not verify the jacket as the one she saw Oswald “zipping up” as he left the boarding room approx 1:04 pm,

Then the jacket is doubtful as evidence of Oswald being at the at the scene of 10th and Patton , shooting Tippit.

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Which should have more weight?

Seriously Zeon? I don't believe that you even asked this question? The actual rifle CE139(C2766) that is exclusively linked to the three shells in the sniper's nest and the bullet fragments discovered in Kennedy's Limo hold's infinite more weight!

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As far the jacket, since it cannot be verified who found the jacket and since there  was no residue of dirt or oil on the jacket even though it was supposedly thrown under a car in a parking lot, and there was no indication of any gunpowder residue either, and since the jacket (in one recorded camera filming) in the hand of a cop is clearly too WHITE to be anywhere near light blue gray, and since Earlene Roberts could not verify the jacket as the one she saw Oswald “zipping up” as he left the boarding room approx 1:04 pm,

Then the jacket is doubtful as evidence of Oswald being at the at the scene of 10th and Patton , shooting Tippit.

Oswald left the rooming house zipping up a jacket.
Oswald was positively identified either at or leaving the Tippit crime scene, and many of those eyewitnesses said Oswald was wearing a light coloured jacket.
A light coloured jacket was found under a car in a car park, Oswald was seen entering.
The jacket discovered in the carpark had fibres in the sleeve which matched Oswald's arrest shirt.
Oswald was not seen wearing a jacket while in front of the shoe store that Brewer was employed in.
Oswald was not wearing a jacket when he was arrested.

Where is the jacket?

The jacket eyewitnesses

Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have buttons or a zipper, or do you remember?
Mr. BENAVIDES - It seemed like it was a zipper-type jacket.

Mr. BALL. What did you tell them you saw?
Mr. CALLAWAY. I told them he had some dark trousers and a light tannish gray windbreaker jacket, and I told him that he was fair complexion, dark hair.

Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket, what general color of jacket?
Mrs. MARKHAM. It was a short jacket open in the front, kind of a grayish tan.

Mr. BELIN. Was the jacket open or closed up?
Mrs. DAVIS. It was open.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light—colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light—colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.

Mr. BALL. How was this man dressed that had the pistol in his hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. He had on a pair of black britches and a brown shirt and a lithe sort of light-gray-looking jacket.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket.
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; a light gray jacket and a white T-shirt.

Mrs. ROBERTS. He wasn't running, but he was walking pretty fast---he was all but running.
Mr. BALL. Then, what happened after that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket.


The eyewitnesses who identified Oswald

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. V DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in that room?
Mrs. B DAVIS. Yes, sir. I recognized number 2.

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer. We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him." So they brought four men in.
I stepped to the back of the room, so I could kind of see him from the same distance which I had seen him before. And when he came out, I knew him.
Mr. BALL. You mean he looked like the same man?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. I was looking--trying to see and after I heard the third shot, then Oswald came through on Patton running---came right through the yard in front of the big white house---there's a big two-story white house---there's two of them there and he come through the one right on the corner of Patton.

Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you some pictures that we have here. I show you a picture that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if that is the man that you saw going down the street on the 22d of November as you have already told us.
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Four? Did any one of the people look anything like strike that. Did you identify anyone in the lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.
 
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.


The eyewitnesses who identified Oswald and confirmed Oswald was carrying a gun

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.


Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.

Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.

Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.


JohnM
« Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 07:41:25 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Who Killed J.D. Tippit?
« Reply #559 on: July 21, 2023, 07:34:33 AM »