Who Killed J.D. Tippit?

[Bill Brown]

Is this your roundabout way of saying that Bentley isn't a reliable source? All I take away from the television interview is that he said he went through the wallet and he found Oswald's ID and the "usual things like a credit card and a driver's license". The credit card and driver's license thing seems unlikely, as it doesn't really fit with the story we've been told about Oswald, but anything is possible, I guess. It doesn't really matter what I believe or not. Far more important is what Bentley did not say, not on television and not in his December 3rd report. He never says that he found an ID card with the name Hidell in the wallet he took from Oswald. That's remarkable to say the least, given the fact that it is such a vital piece of evidence for the official narrative.

I am saying Bentley is not to be relied upon, regarding the contents of the wallet.  This is very clear and evident.

I'm not paying super close attention to this thread, so forgive me.  Are you saying that no wallet was taken from Oswald during the car ride from the theater to headquarters or are you saying that one was taken from Oswald during this car ride but that it did not contain Hidell identification?

[Mitch Todd]

Starting from scratch, it took me less than 2 minutes to get to Bentley's report. I see that Iacoletti seems found it with little trouble as well. You could have done so yourself. Lazybones.

I see no reason for why I should look up a document you claim to be quoting from.

I don't see any residual complaints from you about what I'd quoted from Bentley's report. I guess you found that I quoted it correctly.

Then, perhaps, you should guess again. Quoting a couple of lines correctly from an extremely vague report, written nearly two weeks after the event, is not automatically the same as proving your claim.

I substantiated that you were wrong with Bentley's activities that afternoon, for one.

No you haven't. I said, from memory, that Bentley went from police HQ to the hospital, which is exactly what he did. You just added some details about what happened between his arrival at HQ and departure. You actually gave me two versions and neither one, not even the one in Bentley's report of December 3, 1963, supports your claim about the wallet.

Btw, where in his report of December 3, 1963 (when the name Hidell was already well known) did Bently write he found the fake Hidell ID in the wallet he took from Oswald? I couldn't find it, but who knows perhaps you can....

I see no reason for why I should look up a document you claim to be quoting from.

I gave you the document it came from. CE2003.


I said, from memory, that Bentley went from police HQ to the hospital, which is exactly what he did.

You said a lot more than what you now claim. This is exactly what you said:

"IIRC Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person."

What I noted was that in Bentley's own account, he accompanied Walker, Oswald, Carrol, and Hill to Fritz' office and turned over the wallet there. Bentley then continued with Hill's party to the Personnel office to write the arrest report. Only after completing that report did Bentley go to the hospital. I'll take his word for it over your own faulty memories of some unnamed source.

Btw, where in his report of December 3, 1963 (when the name Hidell was already well known) did Bently write he found the fake Hidell ID in the wallet he took from Oswald? I couldn't find it, but who knows perhaps you can....

Why would he be expected to provide that in the report? It is only your own presumption that he would have.

[John Mytton]

Do you believe the wallet Bentley removed from Oswald's back pocket (while in the car from the theater to headquarters) contained credit cards?

Hi Bill, Hope you are well. I like your Ed Forum posts and trying to keep those paranoid loonies somewhat honest, I was just over there and they now have a Hidell ID thread and Griffith is already claiming that there was two wallets with the Hidell ID contained within, but how does that fit in any narrative?, did they not expect Oswald to be carrying a wallet? And why suppress the wallet at the Tippit crime scene when their whole plan was to frame Oswald? The lack of critical thinking skills is on full display and is quite the embarrassment.

Getting back to your question, of course there was no credit cards or drivers licence or things like that in Oswald's wallet, the reason that they looked at the wallet in the Police car in the first place was just to find Oswald's name and when they found the library card with Oswald's name, there was no need for an extensive search of anything else. Then when they got back to the station a more thorough search revealed the Hidell ID, it's not rocket science.

The first mention of an Oswald wallet at the Tippit crime scene was an off hand comment made decades later but these CT's are like ravenous dogs who will latch onto these factoid anomalies and then create new scenarios which obviously don't fit any overall structure, but logic be buggered when it gets in the way of some massive undefinable conspiracy.



Anyway have a great day and don't be a stranger!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

I am saying Bentley is not to be relied upon, regarding the contents of the wallet.  This is very clear and evident.

I'm not paying super close attention to this thread, so forgive me.  Are you saying that no wallet was taken from Oswald during the car ride from the theater to headquarters or are you saying that one was taken from Oswald during this car ride but that it did not contain Hidell identification?

I am saying Bentley is not to be relied upon, regarding the contents of the wallet.  This is very clear and evident.

And another law enforcement officer gets thrown under the bus......

But tell it to Mitch Todd because he seems desperate to rely on what Bentley wrote in his extremely vague report.   


Are you saying that no wallet was taken from Oswald during the car ride from the theater to headquarters

No. I have no doubt that Bentley took Oswald's wallet from him in the car. Three more officers have confirmed this.

or are you saying that one was taken from Oswald during this car ride but that it did not contain Hidell identification?

There is no evidence to show that a Hidell identification was in that wallet. None of the four officers that were in the car mention a Hidell ID despite it being a vital piece of evidence. Or is that just more police incompetence, according to you?

[Martin Weidmann]

I see no reason for why I should look up a document you claim to be quoting from.

I gave you the document it came from. CE2003.


I said, from memory, that Bentley went from police HQ to the hospital, which is exactly what he did.

You said a lot more than what you now claim. This is exactly what you said:

"IIRC Bentley was injured during the arrest and was taken to hospital as soon as the car arrived at City Hall. When he came back from hospital he still had the wallet he took from Oswald on his person."

What I noted was that in Bentley's own account, he accompanied Walker, Oswald, Carrol, and Hill to Fritz' office and turned over the wallet there. Bentley then continued with Hill's party to the Personnel office to write the arrest report. Only after completing that report did Bentley go to the hospital. I'll take his word for it over your own faulty memories of some unnamed source.

Btw, where in his report of December 3, 1963 (when the name Hidell was already well known) did Bently write he found the fake Hidell ID in the wallet he took from Oswald? I couldn't find it, but who knows perhaps you can....

Why would he be expected to provide that in the report? It is only your own presumption that he would have.

What I noted was that in Bentley's own account, he accompanied Walker, Oswald, Carrol, and Hill to Fritz' office and turned over the wallet there.

Bentley didn't say that. In his report he just said he turned over "his information" (whatever that means) to Baker. You just assume he was talking about the wallet. That's beyond weak!

And even worse, as Gus Rose started talking to Oswald as soon as he was brought in and was given a wallet (somebody said was Oswald's) none of this contradicts the possibility that the wallets were switched and that Rose was given the Tippit scene wallet, which we know from FBI agent Barrett did contain a Hidell ID.

I'll take his word for it

Apparently, Bill Brown doesn't take his word at all. But beyond that, you are taking his word about what?

Why would he be expected to provide that in the report? It is only your own presumption that he would have.

So the officer who found a vital and incriminating piece of evidence doesn't have to report that and doesn't have to be part of the chain of custody? Is that what you are foolishly trying to say?

You do understand that before they went to Fritz's office where you think Bentley turned over the wallet, they had already left Oswald with Rose and he (according to his testimony) had already been given a wallet by then. So even your silly timeline doesn't work!

[Bill Brown]

I am saying Bentley is not to be relied upon, regarding the contents of the wallet.  This is very clear and evident.

And another law enforcement officer gets thrown under the bus......

But tell it to Mitch Todd because he seems desperate to rely on what Bentley wrote in his extremely vague report.   


Are you saying that no wallet was taken from Oswald during the car ride from the theater to headquarters

No. I have no doubt that Bentley took Oswald's wallet from him in the car. Three more officers have confirmed this.

or are you saying that one was taken from Oswald during this car ride but that it did not contain Hidell identification?

There is no evidence to show that a Hidell identification was in that wallet. None of the four officers that were in the car mention a Hidell ID despite it being a vital piece of evidence. Or is that just more police incompetence, according to you?

There is no evidence to show that a Hidell identification was in that wallet. None of the four officers that were in the car mention a Hidell ID despite it being a vital piece of evidence.

Incorrect.

Gerald Hill stated that the wallet contained identification in the form of a library card in the name of Oswald.  Hill also stated that the wallet contained identification matching the name that Oswald used to purchase the rifle under (Hidell).

[John Mytton]

Incorrect.

Gerald Hill stated that the wallet contained identification in the form of a library card in the name of Oswald.  Hill also stated that the wallet contained identification matching the name that Oswald used to purchase the rifle under (Hidell).

Thanks Bill

Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?
Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.
Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell?
Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard.
Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name?
Mr. HILL. Yes; it was.

JohnM

[Bill Brown]

Hi Bill, Hope you are well. I like your Ed Forum posts and trying to keep those paranoid loonies somewhat honest, I was just over there and they now have a Hidell ID thread and Griffith is already claiming that there was two wallets with the Hidell ID contained within, but how does that fit in any narrative?, did they not expect Oswald to be carrying a wallet? And why suppress the wallet at the Tippit crime scene when their whole plan was to frame Oswald? The lack of critical thinking skills is on full display and is quite the embarrassment.

Getting back to your question, of course there was no credit cards or drivers licence or things like that in Oswald's wallet, the reason that they looked at the wallet in the Police car in the first place was just to find Oswald's name and when they found the library card with Oswald's name, there was no need for an extensive search of anything else. Then when they got back to the station a more thorough search revealed the Hidell ID, it's not rocket science.

The first mention of an Oswald wallet at the Tippit crime scene was an off hand comment made decades later but these CT's are like ravenous dogs who will latch onto these factoid anomalies and then create new scenarios which obviously don't fit any overall structure, but logic be buggered when it gets in the way of some massive undefinable conspiracy.



Anyway have a great day and don't be a stranger!

JohnM

Hi John.  I went over to the Ed Forum because (supposedly) the Crème de la Crème of CT's were there and I was looking to discuss the case with the best.  I have been a member over there for maybe nine or ten months now and I have been disappointed in the quality of conspiracy advocates over there.  Kook City.

Regarding the wallet, Besides Barrett, Croy is the only other member of law enforcement who ever mentioned a wallet at the scene.  Dale Myers interviewed Bentley, Poe, Jez, Shipley and Leavelle. All were at the scene. None of them knew anything about any wallet.  Westbrook, who supposedly asked Barrett if he knew the names Oswald and Hidell, never mentioned any wallet at the scene.

I hope you're well, Buddy.  If you ever decide to debate the case in the Facebook groups, let me know.  I'm Admin of two groups.  One centered on the entire case, the other centered solely on the Tippit case.