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Author Topic: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!  (Read 8174 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2023, 09:28:11 PM »
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David Belin, in his book: “November 22, 1963: You Are The Jury” writes that his theory is pure conjecture. Then goes on to explain, after explaining some of his research, how it could possibly be correct. On page 427, regarding the bus transfer, he writes:

  I was also correct in my hypothesis that a city transit company bus could be boarded at the intersection of Marsalis and Jefferson Streets near the scene of the Tippit murder, which went along Lancaster Road past the Lisbon flag stop. Finally, I was correct that the transfer would be valid for that bus. The rules of the bus line provided that the transfer was ordinarily valid for 15 minutes. However, the Lancaster Road bus route at that time had buses scheduled only every hour. If the bus for which the transfer was being used was scheduled an hour later, the transfer would be good for that bus, regardless of the time that had transpired after leaving the bus from which the transfer was obtained. In other words, the Marsalis bus line driver gave Oswald a transfer cut at 1:00 pm. However, the next bus at Lancaster Road would not have arrived at the transfer point until after 1:30. Accordingly, the transfer that Oswald had in his pocket was good for the Lancaster bus route.

Even if true, is there any evidence that Oswald knew this?

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2023, 09:28:11 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2023, 09:35:34 PM »
Belin’s theory is pure conjecture. He states that using those exact words. He says that LHO regularly used the buses in Dallas and believed that LHO would know the rules.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2023, 01:27:19 AM »
I was under the impression that the bus transfer was only valid for 15 minutes from the moment of it being issued. If that is correct, the transfer would have expired by the time Oswald got to the roominghouse.

The bus transfer was valid for 15 minutes after the time specified on the transfer.
The time on the bus transfer ticket was 1:00pm and was valid until 1:15pm
McWatters explains it in his WC testimony:

Mr. Ball: Well now, do you punch the transfer when the passenger asks for it?

Mr. Mcwatters: No. No, sir; in other words, when you leave this, you are inbound when you are going into town or when you are going, in other words, out of town, in other words.
I was coming in, in other words, when I got in Lakewood Addition I set my transfers for downtown.

Mr. Ball: For downtown and you set them for what time?

Mr. Mcwatters: I set them for 1 o'clock.



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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2023, 01:27:19 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2023, 01:53:26 AM »
But then that raises the question, if Oswald was so determined to use a bus transfer, why would he pay for a cab at all and then take the time to have a cab drop him off in a place that would require him to have to hurry so much in order to use it? Speculation can take you anywhere.

if Oswald was so determined to use a bus transfer, why would he pay for a cab at all

It can be easily argued that the notoriously tight-fisted Oswald splashed out on a cab because he was determined to use the bus transfer.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2023, 02:15:38 AM »
Continuing with his theory, Belin writes in the next paragraph on page 427 of his book “November 22, 1963, You Are The Jury”:

There was one additional fact that supported my theory. The intersection at Jefferson and Marsalis Streets was the only transfer point in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas at which Oswald could have used his transfer.

If I remember correctly, Dale Myers theorized that LHO might have, immediately after leaving the rooming house, walked east over to Marsalis Street then headed south. Dale indicated that there was some routine police activity happening at the Marsalis/Jefferson Streets intersection at that time. Dale theorized that LHO might have seen the police as he approached the intersection and turned west on 10th Street to try to avoid the police.

I think that if Belin’s theory is correct, that might help explain why LHO chose to board the Marsalis bus instead of waiting a short time for the one that went right by the rooming house. Perhaps LHO wasn’t even planning to retrieve his revolver from his room. He might have initially been planning to transfer to the Lancaster bus without retrieving the revolver. Maybe he just wanted to get away ASAP.

I also have a theory that if Belin’s and Dale Myers’ theories are correct, that LHO could have seen the taxi at the intersection of 10th and Patton from a distance as he was walking on 10th Street. Perhaps he wanted to use the taxi to take him away from there. So, maybe he started hurrying even faster, or even raised his arm in an effort to try to get the taxi driver’s attention. And, as fate would have it, perhaps Tippit saw LHO at that same time (and before LHO saw him). Tippit might have thought LHO was trying to flag him down, and that might be the reason he stopped. Yes, this is all pure conjecture. But it keeps on occurring to me every time I consider the possibilities.

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2023, 02:15:38 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2023, 05:27:40 PM »
if Oswald was so determined to use a bus transfer, why would he pay for a cab at all

It can be easily argued that the notoriously tight-fisted Oswald splashed out on a cab because he was determined to use the bus transfer.

Seems like an extra bus fare would be cheaper than a cab fare.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2023, 01:05:42 AM »
Seems like an extra bus fare would be cheaper than a cab fare.

I would imagine you are correct - a bus fare would be cheaper than a cab fare.
However, I'm not sure what you mean by pointing that out.
In the scenario being outlined Oswald has a bus transfer ticket that runs out at 1:15pm.
Having the bus transfer ticket on him raises a possible explanation for why he is heading east on 10th and why he is in a hurry - he is trying to make the transfer point at Marsalis and Jefferson before 1:15pm.
I'm not sure how catching a different bus helps him achieve this.
I get the impression that Oswald was really tight-fisted with money and getting a cab back to the rooming house would be a really unusual thing for him to do. The most reasonable assumption I can make is that he is in a hurry to get where he's going.
Roberts gives the impression Oswald is in a big hurry when he enters the rooming house.


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2023, 02:01:29 AM »
I would imagine you are correct - a bus fare would be cheaper than a cab fare.
However, I'm not sure what you mean by pointing that out.
In the scenario being outlined Oswald has a bus transfer ticket that runs out at 1:15pm.
Having the bus transfer ticket on him raises a possible explanation for why he is heading east on 10th and why he is in a hurry - he is trying to make the transfer point at Marsalis and Jefferson before 1:15pm.
I'm not sure how catching a different bus helps him achieve this.

Because he paid a cab fare in order to avoid paying an extra bus fare? This makes no sense.

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2023, 02:01:29 AM »