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Author Topic: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?  (Read 12059 times)

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2023, 03:32:00 PM »
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It is amazing that our resident contrarians will go round and round down the rabbit hole on every subject.  Here the objective of any conspirators to frame Oswald is to link him to the rifle as definitively as possible.  Why use an alias in that scenario to obscure the purchase?  The planners are not attempting to hide Oswald's purchase of the weapons, but to the contrary link him to the weapon.  No need for any alias in that context.  In contrast, if Oswald intends to use the rifle to commit a crime, then he has every incentive to put as much distance between himself and the purchase of that weapon as he can.  So he has every incentive to obscure the trail as much as possible.  The use of an alias in that context is understandable.  This is not rocket science unless someone is playing defense attorney in which it matters less what the truth is than to create doubt by any means.

This line of logic that the use of an alias is consistent with Oswald's desire to distance himself from the rifle and inconsistent with a desire to link him to the rifle doesn't prove Oswald purchased the rifle (the evidence does that) but it lends support to the LNer narrative and undercuts the conspiracy narrative.  Contrarians just ignore this.  This is all just assumptions in a contrarian world in which no fact that they don't want to accept can ever be proven.  Most amusing in their Alice-in-Wonderland approach is that they refuse to even entertain the actual implications of their own counternarrative having any validity.  Much less address it.  The game begins and ends by attempting to create any false doubt of Oswald's guilt.  The absurdity of the counternarrative that must result as a direct consequence to explain events if the evidence against Oswald has been fabricated is never a consideration in reaching any conclusion about underlying events.  For example, if there is debate that Scenario A has occurred by claiming instead that Scenario B occurred, and we know that this alternative scenario that event C and D must have happened as consequence of B having validity, then we can look to whether C and D actually happened or make any sense given the avowed purpose to access the validity of alternative B.  Contrarians never reach this step.  They focus solely on Scenario A.

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2023, 03:32:00 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2023, 03:45:41 PM »
From “Assignment Oswald” by James Hosty, page 106:

Suddenly, DeBrueys exclaimed, “Thank God!” I walked over to his side of the desk and looked over his shoulder at the document he was reading. It was a letter that Lee Oswald had written to the national office for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City. In the letter, Oswald acknowledged that he was the only member of the New Orleans branch of this committee, and that he used A. J. Hidell as one of his aliases. DeBrueys said that he had only deduced, not definitively concluded, that Oswald was the only member of the committee in New Orleans and used Hidell as an alias. This letter, in Oswald’s own handwriting, completely validated DeBrueys’s deductions. He was visibly relieved, because he knew that the rifle trace had largely depended on his deductions.

Is this letter from LHO to the FPCC in the record for us to see?
Charles: Several of Oswald's handwritten letters to the FPCC can be read here:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=957#relPageId=325&search=JFK_Exhibit%20F-497

These were in the HSCA files. They are hard to read, some more than others, and the one I thought would be a letter mentioning the alias - F-497 - doesn't mention it. On second thought I don't think he would mention the Hidell alias in the first letter, the one asking about forming a chapter. Maybe in a followup one? The next letter, F-498, is impossible to make out. It may be in there but I can't find it. In any case, I think this is the best place to find them.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 03:59:36 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2023, 04:22:09 PM »
Oswald's followup letter (typed version/copy) is here:  https://ncisahistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/OSWALD-Lee-H-His-Letter-to-Fair-Play-for-Cuba-Committee-Undated.pdf

No mention of the Hidell alias.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 04:25:44 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2023, 04:22:09 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2023, 05:12:25 PM »
Charles: Several of Oswald's handwritten letters to the FPCC can be read here:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=957#relPageId=325&search=JFK_Exhibit%20F-497

These were in the HSCA files. They are hard to read, some more than others, and the one I thought would be a letter mentioning the alias - F-497 - doesn't mention it. On second thought I don't think he would mention the Hidell alias in the first letter, the one asking about forming a chapter. Maybe in a followup one? The next letter, F-498, is impossible to make out. It may be in there but I can't find it. In any case, I think this is the best place to find them.

Oswald's followup letter (typed version/copy) is here:  https://ncisahistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/OSWALD-Lee-H-His-Letter-to-Fair-Play-for-Cuba-Committee-Undated.pdf

No mention of the Hidell alias.


Thanks Steve!


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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2023, 05:24:26 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2023, 07:30:50 PM »
All six letters he wrote to the FPCC can be read here. I don't see any reference to Hidell although letters two and four are difficult to read.

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_1.pdf
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_2.pdf
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_4.pdf
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_5.pdf
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_6.pdf
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_LeeVincent_Ex_7.pdf

Thanks again Steve. These links are better copies and easier on my tired old eyes. I went back to Hosty’s book “Assignment Oswald” and have found the proper context for the previous quote from that book. Here is another snip that indicates that Hosty and DeBrueys were looking through evidence collected by the Dallas Police. And that this was just a few days after the assassination. So it appears to me that this letter was in LHO’s personal papers. Perhaps it was never sent to the FPCC or was lost or misplaced? Anyway, it sure seems to me that if the authorities had this letter, it should have been presented to the WC as evidence. Here is the snip (from page 100):

An officer showed DeBrueys and me to Lieutenant Potts’s office, which was next to Captain Fritz’s. Stacked in Potts’s office was all the evidence. Two of our FBI agents, Ural Horton and Ron Brinkley, were already there reviewing it, and it looked as if they had been there for some time. When we told them we had been assigned to relieve them, Horton and Brinkley gave sighs of relief. They were criminal agents, with no expertise in counter-intelligence work, and were having a hell of a time making heads or tails of any of the evidence. They quickly grabbed their suit coats, bid us adios and good luck, and left. DeBrueys and I surveyed the room. The evidence seemed to consist mostly of the personal papers of Lee and Marina Oswald. Nothing was organized; in fact, things were a mess. DeBrueys and I looked at each other, not knowing whether to laugh or cry. We decided it was best to divide the room in half and begin what was clearly going to be a tedious job.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2023, 10:35:40 PM »
It is amazing that our resident contrarians will go round and round down the rabbit hole on every subject.  Here the objective of any conspirators to frame Oswald is to link him to the rifle as definitively as possible.  Why use an alias in that scenario to obscure the purchase?  The planners are not attempting to hide Oswald's purchase of the weapons, but to the contrary link him to the weapon.  No need for any alias in that context.  In contrast, if Oswald intends to use the rifle to commit a crime, then he has every incentive to put as much distance between himself and the purchase of that weapon as he can.  So he has every incentive to obscure the trail as much as possible.  The use of an alias in that context is understandable.  This is not rocket science unless someone is playing defense attorney in which it matters less what the truth is than to create doubt by any means.

This line of logic that the use of an alias is consistent with Oswald's desire to distance himself from the rifle and inconsistent with a desire to link him to the rifle doesn't prove Oswald purchased the rifle (the evidence does that) but it lends support to the LNer narrative and undercuts the conspiracy narrative.  Contrarians just ignore this.  This is all just assumptions in a contrarian world in which no fact that they don't want to accept can ever be proven.  Most amusing in their Alice-in-Wonderland approach is that they refuse to even entertain the actual implications of their own counternarrative having any validity.  Much less address it.  The game begins and ends by attempting to create any false doubt of Oswald's guilt.  The absurdity of the counternarrative that must result as a direct consequence to explain events if the evidence against Oswald has been fabricated is never a consideration in reaching any conclusion about underlying events.  For example, if there is debate that Scenario A has occurred by claiming instead that Scenario B occurred, and we know that this alternative scenario that event C and D must have happened as consequence of B having validity, then we can look to whether C and D actually happened or make any sense given the avowed purpose to access the validity of alternative B.  Contrarians never reach this step.  They focus solely on Scenario A.

What a really long-winded way of saying “my claims are automatically correct unless you can prove a different thing happened”.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2023, 10:58:57 PM »
Prove to anybody

Well John, 12 anybody's(Dallas Citizens) had a chance to review the evidence in the closest thing to a real trial that Oswald ever had, with actual real eyewitnesses, forensic experts, medical experts, a real Texas Judge and etc. Oswald was defended by one of the finest trial attorney's in America's history Gerry Spence, who gave an excellent defence but the evidence against Oswald was just too overwhelming and those 12 civilians convicted Oswald!
Sorry about that Bro, but the evidence was in fact proved to 12 anybody's and thus you Lose. Next!



Part 1


25 links to videos of the Oswald TV Docu-Trial Trial.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0O5WNzrZqIOubam491Q_OKBOBzfH7RDi

And many thanks to David Von Pein who posted these excellent videos.

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 11:33:50 PM by John Mytton »

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Re: Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2023, 10:58:57 PM »