RIP to the Single-bullet theory?

[John Iacoletti]

That letter in CE2637 is certainly enough proof for me.

Of course it is.

[Charles Collins]

People who try to make something out of nothing will never be satisfied.

Making something out of nothing??

Latona is the supervisor of the latent fingerprint section of the identification division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. He is the FBI's main man for fingerprint identification with decades of experience.
He was examining the weapon that was supposed to have murdered the President, trying to ID the murderer. He had the weapon taken apart and examined every part of the rifle in full.
Not only did he find no palm print, he found no attempt had been made to lift such a print. There was no print on that rifle when it reached Latona a few hours after it had been released by Day.
So, perhaps the print was somehow completely wiped from the barrel in transit. That is the only feasible explanation if Day is being truthful.

That Day insists he had no time to examine the lift he had taken from the rifle with the print taken from Oswald is clearly nonsensical. It's got nothing to do with being asked to stop work on the rifle. Day had the palm print for days and had more than enough time to examine it. Remember, this was the piece of evidence that put the murder weapon in Oswald's hands. To imagine that this would not have been a top priority is delusional.

Something about this really stinks and for you to infer I'm making something out of nothing is unreasonable, to say the least.

Not only did he find no palm print, he found no attempt had been made to lift such a print.

That’s not true. He said he found no indication (as in cellophane for an indicator, like the prints on the trigger guard) that a print had been lifted from the bottom of the barrel. There is no way Latona could have determined that no attempt had been made by simply examining the rifle.


So, perhaps the print was somehow completely wiped from the barrel in transit. That is the only feasible explanation if Day is being truthful.

There are plenty of explanations. If you read Latona’s testimony you will learn that he chose to use gray powder. Day had used black powder. That difference could have contributed to the problem. Latona also said that even using a lot of various lighting techniques he could barely discern the partial prints on the trigger guard. Yet Day could see these prints clearly in the less than ideal lighting in the TSBD. The differences in powder colors and eyesight perceptions could explain some things. Maybe Latona could see gray on the rifle finish better than he could see black.
You can suspect that there is “something that stinks” if you wish to do that. I really don’t care. If you want to convince others, you might need some evidence.


That Day insists he had no time to examine the lift he had taken from the rifle with the print taken from Oswald is clearly nonsensical. It's got nothing to do with being asked to stop work on the rifle. Day had the palm print for days and had more than enough time to examine it. Remember, this was the piece of evidence that put the murder weapon in Oswald's hands. To imagine that this would not have been a top priority is delusional.

 Just because you (in hindsight) think Day should have kept working on the palm print lift, doesn’t mean that Day felt that way. He had already done a preliminary examination and believed it was Oswald’s print. He had been told to stop the examination. I could easily understand that he might have decided to not continue until he was told to do so.


Something about this really stinks and for you to infer I'm making something out of nothing is unreasonable, to say the least.

I didn’t have anyone specific in mind regarding that generalization. You shouln’t take it personally.

[John Iacoletti]

But Liebeler said they realized the problem could be resolved "in another way." Several Commission assistant counsels subsequently met with FBI inspector James R. Malley, the bureau's liaison with the Commission, and FBI fingerprint expert Sebastian Latona. Liebeler asked Latona whether there was a way to prove that the lift came from the rifle. Latona reexamined the lift submitted by Lieutenant Day and noticed pits, marks, and rust spots on it that corresponded to identical areas on the underside of the rifle barrel--the very spot from which Day said the print had been lifted

While this is convenient hearsay, Speer is right in asking why there is no report or testimony from Latona confirming any of this. The WC called William Whaley back just to clarify where he dropped off Oswald, but the supposed confirmation of an Oswald print being lifted from the rifle wasn’t important enough to pursue?

Speer’s entire chapter on the whole palm print debacle (as well as the other prints) is well worth the read. He also covers how Carl Day’s story morphed over the days, weeks, and years.

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e-un-smoking-the-gun

One interesting tidbit is that there was an earlier version of the Pinkston memo that makes clear that it is referring to the trigger guard print that Day was examining in the TSBD.

[John Iacoletti]

Day said otherwise and Rusty said he was right there with Day and Drain when the rifle was turned over and Rusty agrees with Day. Rusty says there was another FBI agent with Drain who was trying to make them all hurry up. And that Drain was only half listening to Day.

Closing ranks, as cops do. And a dumb excuse. This wasn’t important enough to turn over as evidence or to even bother getting Drain’s attention about?

Why do you keep insisting Drain knew nothing about it?

Because Drain said he didn’t know anything about it.

[Charles Collins]

Closing ranks, as cops do. And a dumb excuse. This wasn’t important enough to turn over as evidence or to even bother getting Drain’s attention about?

Because Drain said he didn’t know anything about it.

The DPD had jurisdiction, the FBI did not. I think Day was correct in not turning anything over to the FBI that he wasn’t specifically instructed to turn over.

Day should have done more than get Drain’s attention regarding the palm print remnants under the fore stock. He should have indicated that it was there in some way that it should not have been overlooked. But he felt he could count on Drain to relay his message. This is why this type of transaction needs to be documented. Sadly, sometimes people end up learning some things the hard way.

Drain could have simply forgotten that Day told him that. Who are you going to believe? I will go with the one who was shown to have done what he said he did when the WC questioned it and the FBI provided solid physical evidence that he told the truth.

[John Iacoletti]

The DPD had jurisdiction, the FBI did not. I think Day was correct in not turning anything over to the FBI that he wasn’t specifically instructed to turn over.

“Lt. DAY stated he received instructions from Chief of Police JESSE B. CURRY, Dallas Police Department, Dallas, Texas, to turn over all of the evidence collected that he was examining, which related to LEE HARVEY OSWALD, to the FBI shortly before midnight on November 22, 1963.”

Day should have done more than get Drain’s attention regarding the palm print remnants under the fore stock. He should have indicated that it was there in some way that it should not have been overlooked. But he felt he could count on Drain to relay his message.

When did he ever say that?

Drain could have simply forgotten that Day told him that.

Sure and Day could have simply never told him that.

Who are you going to believe? I will go with the one who was shown to have done what he said he did when the WC questioned it and the FBI provided solid physical evidence that he told the truth.

I’m going to believe the one who isn’t trying to cover his ass with ever evolving stories to make up for mishandling evidence (at best), or falsifying evidence (at worst).

[Charles Collins]

“Lt. DAY stated he received instructions from Chief of Police JESSE B. CURRY, Dallas Police Department, Dallas, Texas, to turn over all of the evidence collected that he was examining, which related to LEE HARVEY OSWALD, to the FBI shortly before midnight on November 22, 1963.”

When did he ever say that?

Sure and Day could have simply never told him that.

I’m going to believe the one who isn’t trying to cover his ass with ever evolving stories to make up for mishandling evidence (at best), or falsifying evidence (at worst).

“Lt. DAY stated he received instructions from Chief of Police JESSE B. CURRY, Dallas Police Department, Dallas, Texas, to turn over all of the evidence collected that he was examining, which related to LEE HARVEY OSWALD, to the FBI shortly before midnight on November 22, 1963.”

Those are the words of Vincent Drain. Not the words of Carl Day. If you are going to claim that Day was told to turn over the palm print you need better evidence than Vincent Drain’s words.

Edit: These are the words of Carl Day as transcribed in “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed, page 238:

Around 11:30 that night I received orders which merely said, “Release the rifle to the FBI.” Shortly thereafter I handed it over to Vince Drain of the FBI. I told him, “There’s a trace of a print here” and showed him where it was. It was just a verbal communication to him. I didn’t have time to make any written reports; I just gave it to him and he signed for it without saying anything. I don’t remember whether he wrapped it up with anything or not, but he took it on to Washington that night. It’s a funny thing about that. We had a few other items around such as some of his clothes and paper off the roll at the Book Depository that we didn’t do anything else with. I didn’t send the card lift either. They told me not to do anything else, so I didn’t even look at it again.


When did he ever say that?

I didn’t say that Carl Day said that. It is my own opinion. Day has said that he and Drain had already known each other for years before the assassination and got along well. Combine that with Day saying he verbally told Drain about the palm print and a logical conclusion could be made that Day trusted Drain to relay the message.


I’m going to believe the one who isn’t trying to cover his ass with ever evolving stories to make up for mishandling evidence (at best), or falsifying evidence (at worst).

It is amazing to me that you can believe those claims of wrongdoing by Day without any evidence. You always insist that any evidence that points towards LHO’s guilt isn’t good enough for you. It sure appears hypocritical to me.


Edit #2:  Here is apparently what Vincent Drain meant by “all the evidence” in the report that your earlier post quotes:



These are Vincent Drains words as transcribed in “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed, page 247-248:

Earlier in the evening, about 8:00 o’clock, the division chief had talked to me on the telephone and informed me that the FBI in Washington demanded that we bring to them for examination the rifle, the revolver that was used to kill Tippit, as well as the different paraphernalia such as identification cards and other small items that Oswald had on him. I discussed it with the police chief and told him that we’d keep the chain of evidence intact and that I would pick them up there myself and wait for them until they were examined in Washington then bring them back. So it was turned over to us.

[Michael Capasse]

Cherry-picking statements isn't proof of anything.