When Was JBC Hit?

[Andrew Mason]

There is no doubt JFK is shot through the throat between z-frames 222 and 223. I'm asking a simple question - where did the bullet go that Knott Labs have striking JBC's back?

I not only have considerable doubt about the first shot being that late, there is considerable evidence is against it.  You are ignoring Phil Willis, as well as his daughter Linda.  You are also ignoring Rosemary Willis' sharp turn at z204-206:

There is also no doubt that the Z-film shows both men having radical reactions at exactly the same moment, a reality the Knott Labs model fails to explain.

The evidence that the first bullet passed through JFK but did not strike JBC in the back is also consistent with both men having "radical reactions" at "exactly" the same moment. [edit:]  JBC said he reacted immediately after recognizing the sound as a rifle shot and, fearing an assassination unfolding, turned around out of concern for JFK being shot.  He was quite clear that his reaction to the first shot was not from being hit in the back by it.

And the trajectory for JBC's wounds seems to be showing that he was shot by JFK!! A new theory that holds about as much water as your own truly dead and buried theory.

If you are referring to the red line trajectory, that is the path that a bullet would have to follow for JBC to be hit in the right armpit and exit under his right nipple at that point.  That red line trajectory does not fit a shot from the SN, obviously.  So the conclusion would have to be that JBC was not struck in the back at that point, based on the Knott model.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I not only have considerable doubt about the first shot being that late, there is considerable evidence is against it.  You are ignoring Phil Willis, as well as his daughter Linda.  You are also ignoring Rosemary Willis' sharp turn at z204-206:

The evidence that the first bullet passed through JFK but did not strike JBC in the back is also consistent with both men having "radical reactions" at "exactly" the same moment.  If you are referring to the red line trajectory, that is the path that a bullet would have to follow for JBC to be hit in the right armpit and exit under his right nipple at that point.  That red line trajectory does not fit a shot from the SN, obviously.  So the conclusion would have to be that JBC was not struck in the back at that point, based on the Knott model.

Question: What caused the "radical reaction" by JBC at the same moment as JFK's "radical reaction" to a bullet hitting him?

Don't we also see a physical reaction by JBC as the bullet hits him in the right shoulder like, as he said, a "fist"? If that wasn't a bullet then what caused it? I'm sure you answered this before but I can't find it offhand.

[Dan O'meara]

I not only have considerable doubt about the first shot being that late, there is considerable evidence is against it.  You are ignoring Phil Willis, as well as his daughter Linda.  You are also ignoring Rosemary Willis' sharp turn at z204-206:

The evidence that the first bullet passed through JFK but did not strike JBC in the back is also consistent with both men having "radical reactions" at "exactly" the same moment.  If you are referring to the red line trajectory, that is the path that a bullet would have to follow for JBC to be hit in the right armpit and exit under his right nipple at that point.  That red line trajectory does not fit a shot from the SN, obviously.  So the conclusion would have to be that JBC was not struck in the back at that point, based on the Knott model.

...there is considerable evidence is against it.

 
Phil Willis and his daughters??!!
Considerable evidence??
I forgot how funny you can be 
This ground was covered in detail in "The First Shot" thread. There's no need to go over the destruction of your moribund theory yet again.

[Andrew Mason]

Question: What caused the "radical reaction" by JBC at the same moment as JFK's "radical reaction" to a bullet hitting him?

Hearing the first shot. His reaction described in his WC testimony fits exactly what we see him do after z228. I have updated my earlier post to elaborate. 
Here is what JBC said (4H132-133):

• "We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot.
  I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively
  turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
  shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing
  unusual except, just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in
  the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot
  in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately-the only thought
  that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
  So I looked, failing to see him. I was turning to look back over my left shoulder
  into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn.
  

There is absolutely nowhere in the zfilm prior to z250 where we see any attempt by JBC to look over his right shoulder to check on JFK. None.  Before JFK is seen reacting, JBC does not even turn his neck past 45 degrees forward relative to his shoulders. 

Don't we also see a physical reaction by JBC as the bullet hits him in the right shoulder like, as he said, a "fist"? If that wasn't a bullet then what caused it? I'm sure you answered this before but I can't find it offhand.

I can't tell from just the film what he is reacting to.  We have to follow the evidence and fit it to what is seen in the film.  He said he turned "to look back over my right shoulder" and he does not begin preparing to do that until about z228 and he does not look "back over my right shoulder" until about z255. We can see him straining to look back in Altgens #6 at that time.  We know from SA George Hickey that Hickey was turned forward watching JFK at the time of the second and third shots.  Hickey is still turned rearward in Altgens #6 at z255.  So, according to Hickey, the last two shots are after z255.  That fits with what 80% of those who recalled a pattern to the shot sounds said.

So, in answer to your question, what hit him (other than, possibly, CE399 striking his left thigh) was the realization that the President was being assassinated.  That is why he yelled "oh, no, no", as Nellie recalled, after the first and before the second shot.  We can see him uttering something that looks very much like "oh, no, no" in the z240s.

[Dan O'meara]

The z-frame below is 223.
It shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.
He looks calm and composed.




According to Andrew, Connally has been shot in the leg by this point.
In fact, according to Andrew, Connally was shot in the leg before he even went behind the Stemmons sign and emerges from behind it as if nothing has happened!
Unfortunately, this is the least crazy aspect of his Dead Theory.

[Andrew Mason]

The z-frame below is 223.
It shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.
He looks calm and composed.




According to Andrew, Connally has been shot in the leg by this point.
In fact, according to Andrew, Connally was shot in the leg before he even went behind the Stemmons sign and emerges from behind it as if nothing has happened!
Unfortunately, this is the least crazy aspect of his Dead Theory.

The problem is that everyone assumed he had been struck by only one bullet.  You are assuming that he would have felt the bullet hit his thigh. That is not only based on no evidence, it is contrary to the experience of people who have been shot. Bullets do not hurt. Even JBC said it the shot through his chest did not hurt.  But he felt the impact because it struck and damaged bone. The whole premise of the original SBT was that JBC did not feel being shot!!  That was explained by John McCloy who had witnessed a soldier being shot in by a sniper standing beside him who had not felt the bullet.

[Steve Barber]

The z-frame below is 223.
It shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign.
He looks calm and composed.




According to Andrew, Connally has been shot in the leg by this point.
In fact, according to Andrew, Connally was shot in the leg before he even went behind the Stemmons sign and emerges from behind it as if nothing has happened!
Unfortunately, this is the least crazy aspect of his Dead Theory.

    Hi Dan,
 
  Absolutely correct, Dan! 
 
 I am amazed that anyone could actually believe that John Connally has been shot anywhere before he emerges from behind the sign.  From the time Connally jerked his head from right to left to right , he remained in the same position until he re-emerges from behind the sign and shows the first sign of any change whatsoever to his face at frame 222 of the Zapruder film. Had Connally been struck at any point prior to frame 222-we would have seen.  Not a shred of evidence to support such a theory that Connally was struck before he went behind the sign.   

[Charles Collins]

The problem is that everyone assumed he had been struck by only one bullet.  You are assuming that he would have felt the bullet hit his thigh. That is not only based on no evidence, it is contrary to the experience of people who have been shot. Bullets do not hurt. Even JBC said it the shot through his chest did not hurt.  But he felt the impact because it struck and damaged bone. The whole premise of the original SBT was that JBC did not feel being shot!!  That was explained by John McCloy who had witnessed a soldier being shot in by a sniper standing beside him who had not felt the bullet.

.



Bullets do not hurt.


Apparently you have never been shot with a bullet. I can assure you from first hand experience that they do hurt.