When Was JBC Hit?

[Royell Storing]

  The mistake You are making is with the positioning of JFK. JFK is Not anywhere close to being seated near the center of the JFK Limo. Just look at the Open Space between JFK and Jackie. Just look at where Jackie's flowers were laying down on the Limo backseat. An alleged bullet that Exited the throat of JFK would have been just inside the passenger side of the Limo. JFK's (R) armpit is almost directly above the side of the Limo. When Kellerman is standing outside the Limo and leans into it in order to unfold Connally's jump seat, he bends over from the waist and extends his arms into the car in order to unfold the jump seat which is close to the middle of the vehicle. At Love Field after JFK sits down and leans back into his sitting position, he shakes hands with a man standing outside the car. JFK's entire (R) arm extends outside the car while he is facing forward. His (R) armpit is Outside of the car due to how close to the side of the car he is sitting. Just my opinion, but I believe JFK liked this seated corner position due to his back condition/back brace. The Love Field seated positions of JFK and Gov Connally makes it clear. JFK's throat is nowhere close to being in-line with the (R) armpit of Connally.       

[Royell Storing]

  Jerry - The film footage I referenced shows JFK directly facing the guy outside of the Limo that is shaking his hand. The BACK of JFK's head is facing Jackie. He is NOT leaning toward her. The (L) photo you have posted is Not capturing the same moment in time as this Love Field film footage.

[Andrew Mason]

It is difficult to discern the door handles but that seems to me to be the correct spots and there seems to be something there. It is also difficult to discern the rear handholds due to the motorcycle front forks beyond the left one and the chrome trim on the front of the Queen Mary beyond the right handhold. However I think we both agree that is the way it appears in Z193. Although, as Murphy’s law would have it, the Roberdeaux map seems to indicate an angle closer to 28-degrees when the line of sight is laid out on it. The image quality of the Z193 image might be part of the issue.
Anyway, what angle do you calculate the bullet trajectory would be (at Z193) from the sniper’s nest window relative to the long axis of the JFK limo? My quick analysis indicates about 16-degrees.

I get 18.5 degrees at z193 using the Berkley map. 


I place JFK on a line from Zapruder to a point about 3 feet north of the end of the concrete retaining wall as seen in z193. Drawing a line parallel to the lane markers at that point and extending back (green) and drawing a line to the SN perpendicular (light blue), and then drawing a direct line from the SN to JFK (red), the angle between green and red is arcsin(light blue/red) which I measure to be arcsin(86/272)=18.4 degrees. When I do the same thing on Trask's map I get 17.5 degrees:



so I suspect there are differences in the maps. The Berkley map claims to have been surveyed.  I don't know the source of Trask's map. 

If you have another preferred map of Dealey Plaza that includes the TSBD I will work it out on that map.

[Charles Collins]

I get 18.5 degrees at z193 using the Berkley map. 


I place JFK on a line from Zapruder to a point about 3 feet north of the end of the concrete retaining wall as seen in z193. Drawing a line parallel to the lane markers at that point and extending back (green) and drawing a line to the SN perpendicular (light blue), and then drawing a direct line from the SN to JFK (red), the angle between green and red is arcsin(light blue/red) which I measure to be arcsin(86/272)=18.4 degrees. When I do the same thing on Trask's map I get 17.5 degrees:



so I suspect there are differences in the maps. The Berkley map claims to have been surveyed.  I don't know the source of Trask's map. 

If you have another preferred map of Dealey Plaza that includes the TSBD I will work it out on that map.

Thanks Andrew, that’s reasonably close to what I came up with on my quick analysis using the Don Roberdeaux map. Don’s map lays out the various points where JFK was at some of the Z frames. And he and you appear to be very close together regarding the Z193 line of sight as it relates to the retaining wall. No need to take it any further. Thanks again.

[John Mytton]

  Jerry - The film footage I referenced shows JFK directly facing the guy outside of the Limo that is shaking his hand. The BACK of JFK's head is facing Jackie. He is NOT leaning toward her. The (L) photo you have posted is Not capturing the same moment in time as this Love Field film footage.

Whatever you think you see in some random footage you claim to have seen is hardly proof of anything. Yawn.

Now, if everyone in the Limo were immovable statues and you could provide visual proof that your split second snapshot of time at Love Field somehow precisely equates to the exact time that both Kennedy and Connally are struck by Oswald's bullet(CE399) then in fact you may have something, but as usual, this is yet another example of you blowing hot air!

JohnM

[Royell Storing]

   You Old Guard JFK Assassination Researchers have done this case serious damage for the last 60+ yrs. I have continuously said that Nobody knows the position of JFK and Connally when they went behind the Stemmons Sign. But, the Connally Jump seat is a Fixed Position from Love Field to Elm St along with JFK leaning back in that corner back seat position the vast majority of the time. You are unfamiliar with the Love Field film footage that my meticulous work has uncovered. What new? I have proven that Motorcycle Officer Haygood is Not the DPD Cop captured on the Darnell/Martin films. I am currently completing my work Proving that the TSBD was Totally UN-SECURE for 2+ hrs following the Kill Shot. There are those of us that are sincere in our ongoing efforts to solve this case. You've had your chance to solve this case and failed. 60+ yrs of failure is a long, long time. How about getting outta the way and permitting The Truth to step forward?   

[Royell Storing]

  Why screw around with adjustments for the use of the Queen Mary? Why not simply Examine the Love Field film footage of JFK and Connally entering and then Sitting Down inside the JFK Limo? JFK's Adam's Apple is over the passenger side of the Limo at Love Field and it's in this same position on the Croft Photo immediately before the shots rang out. This image evidence has been around for decades. The JFK Assassination Research Community continues being more concerned with selling books vs solving this case.

[Andrew Mason]

Now he's trolling "blockbuster" discoveries the "Old Guard" have known and presented for years. Canning had JFK over to his right as far as possible. Connally ended up off his seat only because the limousine drawing Canning used was, unbeknownst to him, highly-flawed.



During their May 1964 reenactment, the FBI had their Kennedy surrogate over to the right as far as possible in the Queen Mary limousine. But the lay-out of the Queen Mary didn't allow for the extra amount of space toward the right that Kennedy had in the SS-100-X. Nonetheless, the FBI and Warren Commission allowed for the variations between the two limousines in their conclusions; some researchers are too stupid or lazy to do that.

Canning’s drawing had nothing to do with the May 1964 re-enactment using the QM.

Canning’s position was based on his analysis of Betzner’s photo in which Canning concluded that the view of JBC was blocked by the man standing in front of Betzner.  He concluded, incorrectly as he later admitted, that JBC’s right shoulder was left of the right side of the ‘blocking man’. He simply extended that sight line from Betzner past the right side of blocking man to the car and showed it on an overhead view of the actual presidential limo. He placed JBC’s right shoulder to the car-left of that line.