When Was JBC Hit?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

You also missed the most reliable piece of evidence of an earlier shot, when Zapruder who was continuously filming while all three shots rang out makes three unique vertical reactions!!!

Zapruder up till and including the headshot only makes three startled vertical jumps while filming, the head shot at Z313, the shot when the Limo emerges from behind the sign and the earlier shot just before Rosemary Willis slows and turns when she says she heard a shot and Connally's quick head turn as confirmed by his own words, testimony which you conveniently ignored. -smug emoji-



Btw it took time for the gun shot sounds to reach Zapruder hence the slight delay in his reactions.

JohnM

Jack your comments, in every thread that i have recently read, are top quality, i have allways been very impressed.

But i wanted to point out that Oswald's shot-1 was back at the signals at about pseudo Z105, whereas Zapruder's sequence started at Z133.
Shot-1 was frame T137 of Towner's footage. T242 being the last frame of that sequence (this is my numbering i think)(not the official numbering)(i made my own frames).
I forget what her frame rate was, probly about 16 fps, compared to Zapruder's 18.3 fps.
Towner would have reacted (jiggled) at about T242, but T242 was her final frame, & there was no Towner jiggle as far as i am aware.

Oswald's shot-2 was at say Z218, sound hit Zapruder at say Z223, startle reaction would have been at say Z227.

The next problem is that Oswald did not fire a shot-3.
Shot-3 4 5 6 & possibly a shot-7 were from Hickey's AR15.
In any case the last shot was the headshot.
So, Hickey shot from say Z300 to Z312.
So, the sound would have hit Zapruder at say Z301 to Z313 (i am too lazy to do exact calcs).

There are 2 kinds of camera jiggle, we have the blast jiggle, & later we have the operator startle reaction jiggle (u of course know all of this stuff).

Anyhow, any worthwhile analysis needs to consider the above info (especially shot timings), which is beyond theory, it is fact.

[Royell Storing]

Royell Royell Royell, u really should try the carnivore diet.

A laser 3D survey adds nothing to any SBT analysis.
A 1963 survey is all that is needed.
The hijinx is in the placing of jfk & Connally & limo.

Re the limo, Greer ran the left wheels just shy of the left lane line.
This placed jfk close to the center of the road, ie the center of the 3 lanes.
After all, jfk should be located at nearly an even distance from gawkers on the left & on the right.
The X painted in the center lane is well placed.

 Yeah, I'm gonna go with Your eyeballing images vs Laser 360 Images from various points inside Dealey Plaza along with Z Frames and other images fed into the Knott Lab computers. Knott Lab work is routinely admitted and relied on in courts across this country.  The SBT in any discussion is now DOA. RIP

[John Mytton]

Imo in this case the strongest pieces of evidence is the three expended shells found on the floor of the sniper's nest which concurs with the vast majority of earwitnesses.

Are these the shells Fritz picked up or the ones he threw down in the sniper's nest?

Wow, lucky ole me, the Forum's most devoted Stalker has chased after me half way across the Planet from the Off Topic section to here.
Go away and get a life, Creep.

JohnM

[Jack Nessan]

Yes that can be true, nobody wants to be wrong.

In the following video Jay Watson who was a reporter and trained to notice details and was in a media follow up car quickly got back to the studio and tells the world within the hour @27:40 that there was three shots.
At another point in the video Bill Newman doesn't recall a third shot but his wife @32:20 recalls three shots.
Also Jerry, Jay's colleague in the follow up car @36:20 recalls 3 shots.

@27:40

Imo in this case the strongest pieces of evidence is the three expended shells found on the floor of the sniper's nest which concurs with the vast majority of earwitnesses.





JohnM

Another good example of what transpired that day that took the JFK Assassination off into the netherworld of the “medias influence”.  It started right here with the reading of Merriman Smith’s three shot news flash by Walter Cronkite and perpetuated by Jay Watson. There was a two shot news flash from James Altgens read on ABC television but it lagged the CBS news flash of three shots by about 5 minutes and quickly disappeared. Merriman Smith was an earwitness. James Altgens was an eyewitness. Out of 70 news reporters in Dealey Plaza, Altgens was the only news reporter there that was an eyewitness. Again, he reported there were only two shots. Like Bill Newman, Altgens was within mere feet of JFK’s car.

Jay Watson is the epitome of what occurred. Jay Watson was an earwitness. Bill Newman was an eyewitness. Bill Newman repeatedly told Watson he did not know about a third shot but Watson kept pushing the three shot narrative. He pushed it to the point that Gayle Newman changed to a three shot narrative. She can be seen in the interview video, right before she leaves the set because she is upset, reading the news bulletin in Watson’s hand. Prior to leaving she is agreeing with Bill when she returns to the interview, she is now a three shot witness. Eventually Gayle in her 50th anniversary interview states she never really heard a third shot. 


Three shells does not mean there were three shots. Only two of the three shells have the indentation on the side of the shell indicating it was actually fired in the chamber of the rifle.

 In Hoovers June 2nd letter to Rankin, Hoover referred to the indentation on the side of the shells as a chambering mark. The same mark is on the unfired shell ejected from the rifle by Det. Fritz. The indentation on the unfired shell would have been the result of an expanded chamber due to heat from having fired the other two cartridges. Josiah Thompson in his book Six Seconds In Dallas notes that the same indentation is present on the other thirty or so shells he observed that had been fired in the carcano by the FBI during testing.

Only CE543 (the shell with the dented lip) does not have the indentation on the side of the shell. It is the shell postulated by the WC in their conclusion as having been used for dryfiring the rifle and was ejected prior to the assassination.

[Martin Weidmann]

Wow, lucky ole me, the Forum's most devoted Stalker has chased after me half way across the Planet from the Off Topic section to here.
Go away and get a life, Creep.

JohnM

And that's the hysterical response you get when you ask a pathetic LN propagandist a question he can't answer, because it's not in the little man's bible.

And btw, it was you, who never ever posts in the Off Topic section, who decided to jump into a conversation you were not participating in, not to discuss the topic, but to attack me as a demonstration and permanent reminder of the fact that I live in your head rent free.

I didn't know just how much I'd gotten under your skin.... Sorry, mate. But fortunately there is a solution; just start acting like an adult and try to have a normal and honest conversation (if you even know what that is)!

[Royell Storing]

Myers did it in the 1990s with less computer power than in most iPhones today. Thanks for the error spot!

Of course, we shouldn't expect a molecule-level match-up. The SketchUp program, for example, has no "pincushion" effect that the Zapruder camera lens had. So some elements on the far side of the car could be a bit off in a match-up. My model's side-mirror doesn't match but it's not important; there are multiple features that I'm more sure of that allow me to match the model to the frame. The mirror isn't on my priority list right now. Another thing is the resolution of the 8mm film and panning blur. In essence, even a relatively-sharp frame still means the figures and car can be moved an inch this way-or-than and still match.

That's like an allowable error margin of 5%. The Knotts SBT analysis is a lot more than 5%.



BTW, the critics are howling over a Knotts capture that they think shows the trajectory followed close to the path of the (oh dear) "official" version.

    I love it when armchair know-it-alls figure they have the grey matter to take on computers. Yet, when a guy like Max Holland decides to move the JFK Limo and expand the 3 shot time window to 12 seconds, they go silent as a church mouse. This biased approach to THE SCIENCE involved completely DQ's them from any sort of objective analysis what-so-ever. FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. SBT RIP

[Royell Storing]

You think LNers have meekly accepted "Mad Max's" cockamamie Pet Theory?

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2015/06/hollands-deflection-ballistics-and-truth.html

I guess that's what happens when one only visits CT kook sites and blogs.

   Jerry - You're knee jerking here and embarrassing yourself. But, desperate people do desperate things. Holland globally launched his ludicrous theory way way back in 2011 during the Nat Geo "The Lost Bullet" Special. He could have even been tooting that laughable horn earlier than that. Your posted link is dated 2015. Is that the Best you got? Really? You are making my case for me. This is indicative of how desperate LN's are with the Knott Laser findings destroying the SBT. Plus, those Knott findings have bolstered the opinion(s) of the oft maligned Cyril Wecht. Double Whammy!! FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. SBT= DOA.   

[Royell Storing]

You really can't bring yourself to read a page on an LN site. Near the top are links to earler critiques that go back to 2007, when the Holland Theory first appeared in as a web article. The very day after Holland published, Gary Mack dismissed it, predicting accurately it would not gain any support. Of course there's always a handful of lost souls who support fringe theories like Mortal Error, Two Shots Total and Third Shot Miss.

   That's hilarious Jerry. In fact, Gary Mack personally called Holland when someone had a car accident and knocked down that very signal light. Holland could then immediately conduct all kinds of testing on it. But, you probably knew this. Holland, Mack, (while alive), You and others have been pulling on the same end of the rope for a good while now. Having someone like Mack as a "friend" running the Sixth Floor proved invaluable. But the Knott 360 Laser Testing has ended all of this subterfuge. You guys are NOW on the wrong side of Pure Science. SBT RIP