When Was JBC Hit?

[Zeon Mason]

Ok , sorry about the misunderstanding on my part about Andrews Z195-200 shot missing.

So it’s about Z200 is the 1st shot that hits only JFK in his back and then exits his throat?
Then about 70 frames (3.5 seconds ) later , a 2nd shot approx at Z270 ish which hits only JC.

Then there’s the 3rd shot Z313 which is 43 frames (about 2.5 secs) after Z270.

That’s a rather amazing shot at Z313 at a round 8” diameter target , moving away slightly laterally at about 8mph , at a range of about 90 yards  in just 2.5 secs after the  2nd shot and accomplished using only the iron sights of the bolt action MC rifle which were fixed zero at 200 meters.

Too bad no one has ever replicated this proposed sequence and timing of shots and scored the head shot .

[Charles Collins]

Yet in that “very, very brief span of time” he had enough time to recognize it as a rifle shot, conclude that an assassination was unfolding, turn around in his jump seat to attempt to see JFK, and then decide to turn back the other way.  Nellie even said he uttered “oh, no, no” before the second shot.

But we don’t have to interpret JBC’s statement.  Many others did that. The interval between the last two was about half that of the interval between 1 and 2. With Oswald shooting, that requires about 4 seconds between 1 and 2.   

Besides, if you think there was an early first shot miss, you don’t accept that his “very, very brief span of time” means what you are suggesting.

After I posted it above, something regarding my encounter with the snake (many years ago) came back into my memory. My senses were all exaggerated and time seemed to slow down. I say this because after I had instinctively jumped backwards (before I “knew” what was happening) I watched the snake strike in what seemed like “a very slow motion.” It missed my leg because I had jumped back instinctively very quickly. And when it fell and hit the ground right in front of me a thud sounded. The thud seemed very loud, much louder than one would expect. I believe it seemed so loud and that time seemed to slow down because my senses were placed on “high alert” by the amygdala in my brain. This effect was very pronounced and I was surprised and amazed by it.
Anyway, I think that something similar might have happened to JBC when he heard the first shot. He was already facing to the right, so his “instinctive” look back could have been simply a very quick head turn. This could have happened while he was obscured by the sign in the Zapruder film. The fact that time seemed to slow down in my snake encounter leads me to believe that it could have also happened to JBC. This “time warp phenomenon” and the typical reaction time that it sometimes takes for one to realize he has been shot might have caused him to believe that he was hit by a second bullet a “very very short amount of time” later.

[Jack Nessan]

You need to watch the whole continuous feed for the hour or so beforehand.  Watson is on the air continuously.   Your allegation was that he caused Zapruder’s confusion. But we can see that Watson did not say anything to him in the hour prior to beginning the interview.  He did not mention 3 shots until after Zapruder said:

“And as I was shooting—as the President was coming down from Houston Street making his turn; it was about a half-way down there—I heard a shot, and he slumped to the side, like this. Then I heard another shot or two—I couldn't say [whether] it was one or two—and I saw his head practically open up [places fingers of right hand to right side of head in a narrow cone, over his right ear], all blood and everything, and I kept on shooting.”
I am struggling with that.  But it is because I am struggling to understand what universe you are in.

So, the only time Watson was telling the witnesses how many shots there were, was the two times he told Bill Newman and the once he told Zapruder and it all on film. You can see in the Zapruder Interview the feed is interrupted several times. What Zapruder saw or heard before his interview is apparently unknown except to you. What is known is Watson was telling him how many shots he heard during the interview. Exactly like he did with Bill Newman.

You are struggling with more than that. The universe you are not in is the one based in reality; we miss you. The universe where witnesses confirming what each other heard and saw is believed and not perverted to a completely different belief to prop up a goofy theory.

[Jack Nessan]

But it doesn’t matter how hard the impact to determine the transfer of momentum. The only thing that matters is the bullet momentum before and the bullet momentum after. Since that loss of momentum is imparted to the body and to whatever it is connected to, the maximum momentum the body can gain is the amount lost by the bullet.

It is obvious, you are all about Physics. You have thought of everything and accounted for it in your reasoning.

Please don’t stop, you are on a real roll. It would be foolish to ever question your intelligence.

[Andrew Mason]

I'm modelling Mason's Theory (he's too cheap to pay to see it done) with his requirements for a Z200s First Shot stated earlier in this thread (Z193, being the clearest in that area, is the frame modeled). This is a draft.

Thanks Jerry. Nicely done. I wasn’t aware of any service available to get this kind of thing done, unless you are offering. 

[Andrew Mason]

Ok , sorry about the misunderstanding on my part about Andrews Z195-200 shot missing.

So it’s about Z200 is the 1st shot that hits only JFK in his back and then exits his throat?
Then about 70 frames (3.5 seconds ) later , a 2nd shot approx at Z270 ish which hits only JC.

Then there’s the 3rd shot Z313 which is 43 frames (about 2.5 secs) after Z270.

JFK was visible from the SN while he passed under the oak tree branches and he was completely clear when he was opposite the lamppost before the Thornton freeway sign. He was opposite the lamppost at z190 and opposite Thornton at z200. I can see signs of the reaction to the first shot by Ready by z199. So I suggest the first shot is closer to z190 than to z200 so I would use z193.

 I also identify the second shot from several indicators at z271-272.

 The final shot was between z312 and z313. 

That makes the spacing 78:41 or 4.26 seconds to 2.24 seconds.  But one must also take into account the difference between sound of the shot hitting an observer’s ear and the shot striking.. The sound of the shot arrives after the shot by a frame or two depending on the length of the path of the bullet and the length of the sound path to the observer.

That’s a rather amazing shot at Z313 at a round 8” diameter target , moving away slightly laterally at about 8mph , at a range of about 90 yards  in just 2.5 secs after the  2nd shot and accomplished using only the iron sights of the bolt action MC rifle which were fixed zero at 200 meters.

Too bad no one has ever replicated this proposed sequence and timing of shots and scored the head shot .

The evidence is that shots were fired from the SN that quickly and the damage occurred.

We also know that between z271 and z312 the path to JFK did not change much as the car was moving almost directly away. JFK moved a bit to the right between those frames.  Oswald has a strap and boxes to prevent motion of the rifle while reloading.

[Zeon Mason]

Does that model  of JC , that Jerry just posted here, represent fairly accurately the position of JC at Z270 as proposed by Andrew?

If so , a bullet hitting  JCs right hand/wrist and exiting the palm of the hand, would  have had to go thru the hat if the bullet entered JCs left inner thigh.

The motions of JCs right shoulder suddenly rotating beginning at Z225 and the right hand clutching hat suddenly upward, beginning approx Z230 seem to me more likely due to involuntary reaction of JC to being hit by a bullet, as opposed to JC just merely trying to turn around after hearing  a rifle shot fired.

If Jerry’s model which has both JCs legs parallel with the longitudinal axis of the limo is the actual orientation ,  then theoretically JC should have been able to twist his upper body around equally right or left.

However, imo, JC did  NOT twist around to his left as much as he did to his right during those movements from Z225-z270.

This suggests that perhaps JC had both his legs rotated towards the right side door when he was in the Z224 position, and that this  precluded him from twisting around to look over his left shoulder enough to see JFK.
JC therefore resorted to twisting around more to his right side  and was able to see JFK just before JC began to fall backwards into Mrs C lap.

If Jerry is willing, perhaps an adjusted model with  both of JCs legs turned towards the right side door and the right hand holding hat over the left leg will solve the hat problem.

[Andrew Mason]

Does that model  of JC , that Jerry just posted here, represent fairly accurately the position of JC at Z270 as proposed by Andrew?

No. It is showing JBC's position at the time of the first shot which I put around z190-195, say z193.

If Jerry is willing, perhaps an adjusted model with  both of JCs legs turned towards the right side door and the right hand holding hat over the left leg will solve the hat problem.

JBC had turned around on previous occasions and knew that JFK was on the far right side of the back seat.  He wasn't expecting him to be as far left as he was.  That would seem to be a more plausible explanation for why he turned to the right rather than because his legs were to the right.  If you sit on a thick cushion on the floor and limit the sideways position of your right leg (in JBC's case, by a car door) where do you put your left leg?: