When Was JBC Hit?

[Royell Storing]

      Relying on the Z Film is why you guys continue with this same 60 yr old banter. There is a Z Film perspective issue relative to the positions of JFK vs Gov Connally inside the Limo. You're wasting your time centering this discussion around the Z Film. Well, that is if you want to deal with the Limo seating reality on 11/22/63. For starters, ask yourself WHY Connally is turning to his (R) and contorting himself into a pretzel in order to see what is going on with JFK in the Limo backseat? Connally is doing this because after cruising around Dallas for roughly 30 minutes, he KNOWS that JFK is seated behind him and Well to his (R). Some of you continue wanting to place Connally toward the center of the JFK Limo. Go ahead, literally knock yourselves out. With JFK tucked into that corner where the passenger side of the Limo runs directly alongside the backrest of the backseat, vs Connally being seated toward the center of the vehicle = the SBT "Is Impossible". (Knott Lab Laser SCIENCE).
      And NO I am not using the Powers images. His ELEVATED view point again raises perspective regarding the images captured inside the Limo. You guys need to go back to the drawing board and do some serious research. You're reliance on the same old images only results in your repeating this discourse that has been going on for 60+yrs.  Like I said, the images I am examining I have Never seen before. 
      Another issue that has come to my attention is how extremely LOW the JFK Limo sits relative to the ground. So we have: (1) the low riding JFK Limo traveling downhill, (2) the Queen Mary right on the Limo rear bumper with those 4 tall/bulky SS Agents riding on the running boards, yet somehow a vintage WW2 bolt action rifle hits its' mark? Twice? This is why the re-creations NEVER include a closely following vehicle with tall/bulky men towering above the target.         

[Jerry Organ]

Neither the FBI or the Secret Service were crazy. They just didn’t initially see the problems with their theory that the investigators with the Warren Commission saw. People who suggest that the Warren Commission blindly accepted the conclusions of the FBI and Secret Service without performing their own investigations apparently do not know what they are saying. It was bold of the WC investigators to stand up to the FBI/SS and tell them that they were mistaken. However, the single bullet theory has withstood many tests over an extended period of time and survived intact.
You are entitled to your own opinion Andrew. But that is all it is… your opinion.

What Andrew says someone is "OK with ignoring witnesses", that's a mischaracterization. But I guess it's standard for his courtroom demeanor. I "ignore" (or rather, refuse to accept) many of  his interpretations of those witnesses. So, Charles, yes, it's Andrew's opinions that are being contested.

Re: the latest in his long line of weirdo accusations: " Jerry "the FBI were bats_it crazy for the first 5 months" Organ".

Andrew is like a MAGA supporter; he wants to go back to a simpler time, before 3D modeling, the Lattimer/Haags tests, the Posner/Bugliosi books, clearer copies of the film on home computers, etc. to went the FBI put forth some theory that "coincides" with his fantasy scenario.

There's Andrew pleading with Canning to help him get the Justice Department to fund his "compelling" cockamamie Pet Theory for free. Andrew's like Trump, who doesn't spent a dime of his own money on his own Presidential campaign. Now that Don Knotts Lab has the DP laser scan, they could probably test his theory for a few thousand dollars. But Mason won't spend the money.

[Andrew Mason]

What Andrew says someone is "OK with ignoring witnesses", that's a mischaracterization. But I guess it's standard for his courtroom demeanor. I "ignore" (or rather, refuse to accept) many of  his interpretations of those witnesses. So, Charles, yes, it's Andrew's opinions that are being contested.

If it was just an opinion based on my interpretations of the witnesses, how did the FBI develop it without me?

Re: the latest in his long line of weirdo accusations: " Jerry "the FBI were bats_it crazy for the first 5 months" Organ".

Well, you called the shot sequence that I was saying followed from the evidence, to wit: JFK being hit in the neck around z195, JBC being hit in the back around z270, and JFK being hit in the head at z313 - "bats__t crazy" several times (this was before the current software started adding a whole lot of scrambled letters e.g. "batspombleprofglidnoctobuns").  How does this sequence differ from the FBI's original shot sequence, accepting SA Howlett's initial review and survey immediately after the assassination finding that "where the President was struck the first time in the neck was approximately 170 feet [from the window ledge of the farthest window to the east in the sixth floor of the TSBD], and that "President Kennedy was struck with the first and third shots fired by the assassin, while Governor Connally was struck with the second shot"? (FBI Gemberling Report of 30 Nov 1963 - Commission Document #5, p 117-118)?  [The only difference is that I place the second shot around z271 based on the compiled statements of witnesses as to the shot pattern and the evidence of Greer, Hickey, Powers, Gayle Newman etc., whereas at that point the FBI could not place the location of JBC at the time of the second shot.]

Andrew is like a MAGA supporter; he wants to go back to a simpler time, before 3D modeling, the Lattimer/Haags tests, the Posner/Bugliosi books, clearer copies of the film on home computers, etc. to went the FBI put forth some theory that "coincides" with his fantasy scenario.

Experts are fine until they conflict with the evidence.  That doesn't seem to be a problem for you. It is for me.

There's Andrew pleading with Canning to help him get the Justice Department to fund his "compelling" cockamamie Pet Theory for free. Andrew's like Trump, who doesn't spent a dime of his own money on his own Presidential campaign. Now that Don Knotts Lab has the DP laser scan, they could probably test his theory for a few thousand dollars. But Mason won't spend the money.

I never asked, or discussed with, Mr. Canning about funding anything.  He offered the statement on his own: "I conclude that the side of Connaly's head is likely to be about
seven to eight inches to the left of his shoulder so that "moving" him to his right to the maximum "allowed" by Betzner's picture still does not put
his torso out of position to have received the bullet on its way from K's throat to C's thigh. I somehow don't envision a further reenactment getting
funded to satisfy our curiosity."

Interesting you should mention hiring Knott to do a 3D recreation of the first shot around z193. I have asked Knott Labs about doing a 3D recreation of the trajectory from the SN through JFK's neck at points between the lamp post and Thornton sign. They quoted me hourly rates but were not able to give me an estimate of the time.  We are still talking. I'll keep you posted...

[Andrew Mason]

The photo on Main Street shows JBC’s right shoulder inline with JFK’s left arm.

 They do align - with a point behind and to the car left.  The shot came from behind to the car right.

The Z193 frame shows JBC’s right shoulder significantly further inboard relative to JFK’s left arm. If the angles of the two different photos are similar, then this indicates to me that JBC was significantly further inboard than you suggest.

I agree that JBC’s midline is inboard of JFK’s midline.  I also agree that a shot at z222 through JFK’s neck and continuing straight would have hit JBC in the back. It just would have hit him slightly to the left side of his spine.

[Royell Storing]

  As he goes behind the Stemmons Sign, JFK is neatly tucked into that corner that is created where the backseat backrest meets the passenger side of the Limo. Just look at the distance between JFK and Jackie. Gov Connally IS positioned further inboard the Limo. This makes an alleged bullet exiting JFK's throat NOT touch Connally period. They are NOT Aligned. Not even close. When JFK is tucked into that corner, (which he was for most of the time), his (R) arm when extended outward toward the crowd is almost entirely outside of the Limo. His (R) armpit being extremely close to riding on the side of the Limo. Relying on the Z Film has you guys all balled up.   

[John Mytton]

      Relying on the Z Film is why you guys continue with this same 60 yr old banter. There is a Z Film perspective issue relative to the positions of JFK vs Gov Connally inside the Limo. You're wasting your time centering this discussion around the Z Film. Well, that is if you want to deal with the Limo seating reality on 11/22/63. For starters, ask yourself WHY Connally is turning to his (R) and contorting himself into a pretzel in order to see what is going on with JFK in the Limo backseat? Connally is doing this because after cruising around Dallas for roughly 30 minutes, he KNOWS that JFK is seated behind him and Well to his (R). Some of you continue wanting to place Connally toward the center of the JFK Limo. Go ahead, literally knock yourselves out. With JFK tucked into that corner where the passenger side of the Limo runs directly alongside the backrest of the backseat, vs Connally being seated toward the center of the vehicle = the SBT "Is Impossible". (Knott Lab Laser SCIENCE).
      And NO I am not using the Powers images. His ELEVATED view point again raises perspective regarding the images captured inside the Limo. You guys need to go back to the drawing board and do some serious research. You're reliance on the same old images only results in your repeating this discourse that has been going on for 60+yrs.  Like I said, the images I am examining I have Never seen before. 
      Another issue that has come to my attention is how extremely LOW the JFK Limo sits relative to the ground. So we have: (1) the low riding JFK Limo traveling downhill, (2) the Queen Mary right on the Limo rear bumper with those 4 tall/bulky SS Agents riding on the running boards, yet somehow a vintage WW2 bolt action rifle hits its' mark? Twice? This is why the re-creations NEVER include a closely following vehicle with tall/bulky men towering above the target.         

Oh my, another decade passes by and Royell is still embarrassing himself.
I'm sure you are a plant, put here to make CT's look incompetent and if so, thank you!

Relying on the Z Film is why you guys continue with this same 60 yr old banter. There is a Z Film perspective issue relative to the positions of JFK vs Gov Connally inside the Limo.

So says the guy who claims that based on the Nix film, that Elm street runs up hill away from the Depository!? Hahaha!

With JFK tucked into that corner where the passenger side of the Limo runs directly alongside the backrest of the backseat, vs Connally being seated toward the center of the vehicle = the SBT "Is Impossible". (Knott Lab Laser SCIENCE).

Relying on the Z Film has you guys all balled up.   

And you don't see the massive contradiction? Don Knotts Lab relied on "SuperScience™" to exclusively place Kennedy and Connally ineptly in the Limo based on their biased interpretation of the Zapruder Film. DOH!





JohnM

[Charles Collins]

They do align - with a point behind and to the car left.  The shot came from behind to the car right.
I agree that JBC’s midline is inboard of JFK’s midline.  I also agree that a shot at z222 through JFK’s neck and continuing straight would have hit JBC in the back. It just would have hit him slightly to the left side of his spine.

  They do align - with a point behind and to the car left.  The shot came from behind to the car right.

They align with the camera angle. That is the point. If the camera angle is similar to the camera angle in Z193, then the space between JFK’s left arm and JBC’s right shoulder (in Z193) indicates that JBC is further inboard in Z193 than he is in the Main Street photo that you tried to use to demonstrate JBC’s position. Perhaps someone with better skills and motivation than me will compare the two camera angles and let us know if they are relatively close.

[Royell Storing]

  "SuperScience"? Specifically, what is that?
   With JFK tucked into that backseat corner vs Gov Connally being seated in that inboard Jump Seat, there is No Alignment between the 2 with regard to a JFK exiting throat wound. Some of you have accepted a Z Film perspective issue as being fact. It's Not. There are those that have always wanted to push Connally's jump seat toward the center of the Limo. Now, these same people are choking on their own jump seat placement.