Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Martin Weidmann]

You are forgetting the Officers. The officers were preventing people from leaving the building and were stationed directly behind the building. By Adams and Styles own statements they told them to return to the front and they did.

MW--Hilarious. The suggestion that those women could walk three sides of the building in 2 minutes wearing high heels is just plain silly.

I have no experience with running in high heels. Do you?


MW--Also, if Adams did see Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs at 12:35, it would mean they did not leave the 4th floor until four minutes after the shots and there isn't a shred of evidence for that.

Yet that is what they said happened. You believe everything else they said but this?

The evidence that Adams and Styles never left the 4th floor until four minutes after is everywhere. It is the evidence that Adams and Styles left the fourth floor immediately, which does not exist.

You are forgetting the Officers. The officers were preventing people from leaving the building and were stationed directly behind the building. By Adams and Styles own statements they told them to return to the front and they did.

BS. The back of the building wasn't locked down until 12:36. There were no officers stationed behind the building before that. In the interview, Vickie Adams states that when she left the building she saw an officer standing near Houston street talking to a man in plain clothes, but they were not watching the building and didn't see her.

Mr. BELIN - Is there any other information that you can think of that might be relevant to anything, connected with the assassination?
Miss ADAMS - At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.
Mr. BELIN - No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.

The officer(s) that told Adams and Styles to return to the building was at the west side of the building where Lovelady saw them;

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.


Adams confirms that she was already "within the tracks", which are west of the building, when a police officer told her to go back

Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.

You can not produce a shred of evidence that there was an officer at the back of the building, because that's simply a lie!

I have no experience with running in high heels. Do you?

Funny. Yet you claim they could have run the distance of three sides of the building and partly on railroad tracks in two minutes. Go figure!

Yet that is what they said happened. You believe everything else they said but this?

I believe everything else they said simply because it matches all the other evidence. The only thing that doesn't fit is the location where Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady. LNs constantly complain about the fact that all the evidence should be considered combined, yet as soon as it becomes convenient you focus in on one anomaly (likely due to something being misremembered) and ignore everything else.

The evidence that Adams and Styles never left the 4th floor until four minutes after is everywhere. It is the evidence that Adams and Styles left the fourth floor immediately, which does not exist.

Anybody who says something this dumb doesn't know or understand the evidence or is simply lying.

Adams said she left the window immediately, which was confirmed by Garner. The latter also stated the women went down the stairs before Truly and a police man came up. It didn't take the men more than four minutes to get to the 4th floor.

But since you claim that there is evidence for a four minutes delay everywhere, why don't you simply produce it instead of merely claiming there is?

[Martin Weidmann]

The bogus item here is the idea that the building was "locked down" at 12:36.

Harkness' 12:36 transmission reads: "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." That is, Harkness expresses the intent do lock down the building, and he hasn't begun to do it yet.

At the time Harkness made this transmission, he's at the west end of Old Elm, past the pergola, having just run into Amos Euins. He put Euins on the back of his trike, and drove him to the front of the TSBD. The Martin film shows Harkness trundling back to the TSBD with Euins on the back of his ride....while Inspector Sawyer's car pulls to the curb in the background. Sawyer, then, doesn't arrive at the TSBD until 12:36 at the earliest.

Once out of the car, Sawyer gets update on the situation by the officers there, then goes into the TSBD with them into the building. Sawyer's group takes the front elevator up to the 4th floor and looks around, running into Truly as he's on his way down from the roof. Seeing nothing incriminating on the fourth floor, Sawyer's group then takes the elevator back down to the first floor, then leave the building. This is the point in time where Sawyer says he stationed two officers at the front door with orders to no let anyone in or out.

Sawyer thought that three minutes elapsed from the time he got out of his car until he returned outside from the fourth floor expedition. So if arrives no earlier than 12:36, then the front door guard is posted no sooner than 12:39. I should point out that Sawyer's group spent enough time on the fourth floor that they made it back to a point near the back stairs for Truly to have seen them. Between 12:41 and 12:43 (and probably closer to 12:43 than 12:41) Sawyer makes his first broadcast of the afternoon, asking that more officers be sent to the TSBD. So Sawyer has to have returned from the 4th floor by then.

The upshot is that there were no officers guarding the front door until at least 12:39, and maybe not until after 12:40. Perhaps as late as 12:43.

What makes you think that Sawyer did not leave a man behind at the front door when he entered the building?


12:36 Channel 1 260 (Sgt. D.V. Harkness)   Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building.

12:37 Channel 2 137 (Patrolman E.D. Brewer)   We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building
              Dispatcher   All right, do you have the building covered off?
             137   No, about 3/4 of a block away from there.
              Dispatcher   All right, pull on down there.

Brewer was 3/4 of block away from the TSBD and went down there to lock down the building.

And Sawyer also testified;

Mr. SAWYER. Well, I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, so I immediately came back downstairs to check the security on the building.
Mr. BELIN. When you say check the security on the building, what do you mean by that?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, to be sure it was covered off properly, and then posted two men on the front entrance with instructions not to let anyone in or out.
Mr. BELIN. What about the rear entrance?
Mr. SAWYER. We'll, I also had the sergeant go around and check to be sure that all of those were covered, although he told me that they were already covered.
Mr. BELIN. When was the order given to cover the front entrance of the building?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, they had it covered when I got there. There were officers all around the front. The only thing I don't think had been done by the time I got there, was the instructions not to let anybody in or out.

You kinda left out the parts in bold. I can only wonder why.

Oh btw, Styles was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car and she entered the building before it was locked down. Adams tried to follow her a couple of minutes later and was stopped.

[Mitch Todd]

What makes you think that Sawyer did not leave a man behind at the front door when he entered the building?


12:36 Channel 1 260 (Sgt. D.V. Harkness)   Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building.

12:37 Channel 2 137 (Patrolman E.D. Brewer)   We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building
              Dispatcher   All right, do you have the building covered off?
             137   No, about 3/4 of a block away from there.
              Dispatcher   All right, pull on down there.

Brewer was 3/4 of block away from the TSBD and went down there to lock down the building.

Oh btw, Styles was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car and she entered the building before it was locked down. Adams tried to follow her a couple of minutes later and was stopped.

You're working from inaccurate transcripts. Harkness 12:36 transmission actually is "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." What you've quoted, "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building." is close, but not correct.

Brewer's transmission begins right after the dispatcher announce "12:38" and lasts about 20 seconds. His motorcycle was shut down at the time he made the transmission. We don't know how long he took to work his way to the TSBD, or even if he used his ride or simply walked. By 12:38, the pent-up traffic on Elm is beginning to flow westward through Dealey Plaza, and Brewer's machine is pointed the wrong way. He may not have wanted to continue riding the wrong way on Elm.

In the Martin film, the sequence just after the scene with Harkness and Euins shows a police officer with SGT stripes on his sleeve ushering in another officer and a civilian through the front door of the TSBD, before turning to go in as well. There were no other officers left to stand guard. The only Sergeant in Dealey Plaza at that time was Harkness. Sawyer thought that Harness was one of the officers who went with him to the 4th floor, but wasn't sure.

Also, photos of the TSBD in the aftermath of the shooting show that the red gates on the building's south side were open at least as late as 12:40. It was Luke Mooney (nota DPD officer) who had a TSBD employee close them and stop any one from entering or exiting through that portal. This indicates that the TSBD had not been locked down by the DPD by at least 12:40.

[Martin Weidmann]

You're working from inaccurate transcripts. Harkness 12:36 transmission actually is "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." What you've quoted, "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building." is close, but not correct.

Brewer's transmission begins right after the dispatcher announce "12:38" and lasts about 20 seconds. His motorcycle was shut down at the time he made the transmission. We don't know how long he took to work his way to the TSBD, or even if he used his ride or simply walked. By 12:38, the pent-up traffic on Elm is beginning to flow westward through Dealey Plaza, and Brewer's machine is pointed the wrong way. He may not have wanted to continue riding the wrong way on Elm.

In the Martin film, the sequence just after the scene with Harkness and Euins shows a police officer with SGT stripes on his sleeve ushering in another officer and a civilian through the front door of the TSBD, before turning to go in as well. There were no other officers left to stand guard. The only Sergeant in Dealey Plaza at that time was Harkness. Sawyer thought that Harness was one of the officers who went with him to the 4th floor, but wasn't sure.

Also, photos of the TSBD in the aftermath of the shooting show that the red gates on the building's south side were open at least as late as 12:40. It was Luke Mooney (nota DPD officer) who had a TSBD employee close them and stop any one from entering or exiting through that portal. This indicates that the TSBD had not been locked down by the DPD by at least 12:40.

You're working from inaccurate transcripts.

Really? And why are you so sure your transcripts are the correct ones?

Harkness 12:36 transmission actually is "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." What you've quoted, "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building." is close, but not correct.

Better check again. My quote is from a broadcast on channel 1. A few seconds earlier Harkness says on channel 2 "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm". In that broadcast he did not say;  "I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." He said that on channel 1.

Brewer's transmission begins right after the dispatcher announce "12:38" and lasts about 20 seconds.
No, the transcript I am using for channel 2 is the one used by the WC. In that one Brewer's transmission begins after the dispatcher announced 12:37.

His motorcycle was shut down at the time he made the transmission. We don't know how long he took to work his way to the TSBD, or even if he used his ride or simply walked. By 12:38, the pent-up traffic on Elm is beginning to flow westward through Dealey Plaza, and Brewer's machine is pointed the wrong way. He may not have wanted to continue riding the wrong way on Elm.

Speculation

In the Martin film, the sequence just after the scene with Harkness and Euins shows a police officer with SGT stripes on his sleeve ushering in another officer and a civilian through the front door of the TSBD, before turning to go in as well. There were no other officers left to stand guard. The only Sergeant in Dealey Plaza at that time was Harkness. Sawyer thought that Harness was one of the officers who went with him to the 4th floor, but wasn't sure.

Just because they can't be seen in the Martin film (which I haven't checked btw) doesn't mean there were no other officers there.

Also, photos of the TSBD in the aftermath of the shooting show that the red gates on the building's south side were open at least as late as 12:40. It was Luke Mooney (nota DPD officer) who had a TSBD employee close them and stop any one from entering or exiting through that portal. This indicates that the TSBD had not been locked down by the DPD by at least 12:40.

Really. Is there a clock visible or a timestamp on those photos? In any event, it's hardly relevant to the discussion as we are talking about the front entrance where Styles re-entered the building. I couldn't care less if all the doors to the annex at the west side were still wide open. Styles wasn't there.

You either ignored or missed what Sawyer said in his testimony;

Mr. SAWYER. Well, I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, so I immediately came back downstairs to check the security on the building.
Mr. BELIN. When you say check the security on the building, what do you mean by that?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, to be sure it was covered off properly, and then posted two men on the front entrance with instructions not to let anyone in or out.
Mr. BELIN. What about the rear entrance?
Mr. SAWYER. We'll, I also had the sergeant go around and check to be sure that all of those were covered, although he told me that they were already covered.
Mr. BELIN. When was the order given to cover the front entrance of the building?
Mr. SAWYER. Well, they had it covered when I got there. There were officers all around the front. The only thing I don't think had been done by the time I got there, was the instructions not to let anybody in or out.

By your own claim Sawyer returned to the front entrance from the 4th floor at 12:39. By then they already had the lockdown covered!

This of course means that Styles was photographed next to Sawyer's car and re-entered the building between 12:36 and before 12:39 (at the latest)!

[John Mytton]

What makes you think that Sawyer did not leave a man behind at the front door when he entered the building?


12:36 Channel 1 260 (Sgt. D.V. Harkness)   Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building.

12:37 Channel 2 137 (Patrolman E.D. Brewer)   We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building
              Dispatcher   All right, do you have the building covered off?
             137   No, about 3/4 of a block away from there.
              Dispatcher   All right, pull on down there.

Brewer was 3/4 of block away from the TSBD and went down there to lock down the building.

 

I'm so glad you are embracing the Dallas Police Radio Tapes!

1:16  Citizen   Hello, police operator?       
         Dispatcher   Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio.       
       Citizen   There's been a shooting out here.       
       Dispatcher   Where's it at?       
         Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio . . .       
       Citizen   Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   What location on Tenth Street?       
       Citizen   Between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What -- what's . . . 404         Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   Can you hear me?       
        (Man and woman's voices in background)       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Citizen   It's in a police car, number 10.       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Dispatcher (?)   78.       
       Citizen   Got that?       
       Citizen   Hello, police operator. Did you get that?       
       Dispatcher   Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 E. Jefferson.       
       Citizen   Thank you.       
       35 (Ptm. J.M. Lewis)   35.       
       259 (unknown)   259.       
       Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio: Remain off the radio now.

1:19       602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
           Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

I'm so glad you are embracing the Dallas Police Radio Tapes!

1:16  Citizen   Hello, police operator?       
         Dispatcher   Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio.       
       Citizen   There's been a shooting out here.       
       Dispatcher   Where's it at?       
         Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio . . .       
       Citizen   Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   What location on Tenth Street?       
       Citizen   Between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What -- what's . . . 404         Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   Can you hear me?       
        (Man and woman's voices in background)       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Citizen   It's in a police car, number 10.       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Dispatcher (?)   78.       
       Citizen   Got that?       
       Citizen   Hello, police operator. Did you get that?       
       Dispatcher   Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 E. Jefferson.       
       Citizen   Thank you.       
       35 (Ptm. J.M. Lewis)   35.       
       259 (unknown)   259.       
       Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio: Remain off the radio now.

1:19       602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
           Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.

JohnM

Yes I do embrace them until the 2 minutes long silence between 1:09 and 1:12 and a minutes long slice between 1:12 and 1:15 as well as hardly any radio communication on channel one between the end of Bowley's call and the time call of 1:19. And of course Bowles telling us that timestamps called out by dispatchers do not reflect real time and could be off by several minutes. The fact that there were several conflicting transcripts also did no good for the credibility of the recordings after 1 PM.

Must all be a coincidence, right?

Still trying to score cheap points, I see.... and again failing miserably.

Do you have anything contributory to share or are you just going to keep on trolling?

[John Mytton]

Yes I do embrace them until the 2 minutes long silence between 1:09 and 1:12 and a minutes long slice between 1:12 and 1:15 as well as hardly any radio communication on channel one between the end of Bowley's call and the time call of 1:19. And of course Bowles telling us that timestamps called out by dispatchers do not reflect real time and could be off by several minutes. The fact that there were several conflicting transcripts also did no good for the credibility of the recordings after 1 PM.

Must all be a coincident, right?

Still trying to score cheap points, I see.... and again failing miserably.

Do you have anything contributory to share or are you just going to keep on trolling?

Yes I do embrace them until....

How convenient! LOLOL!

1:15   Dispatcher   10-4, 603. 1:15.       
    20 (Sgt. S.N. Burkhart)   20.       
    45 (Ptm. N.L. Stanglin)   45.       
    Dispatcher   45.       
    45   There's a minor accident in the 5700 block Live Oak. Do you want me to stay here or answer my call?        >
    Dispatcher   Handle the accident. Disregard Live Oak.       
    45   10-4.       
    Dispatcher   91.       
    91 (Ptm. W.D. Mentzel and Ptm. J.W. Courson)   222 en route?       
    Dispatcher   Yes.       
    91   What's his location?       
    Dispatcher   Location?       
    222 (Ptm. V.R. Nolan)   Sylvan and Colorado.       
    Dispatcher   Location?       
    222   Colorado and Sylvan.       
    Dispatcher   Sylvan and Colorado, 91.       
    91   10-4.       
1:16   Dispatcher   Signal 9, contact the manager, 4916 Live Oak. 1:16.       
    47 (Ptm. W.F. Morris)   4916 Live Oak.       
    69 (Ptm. A.R. Brock)   69 clear at the garage.       
    Dispatcher   69 clear. 1:16.
1:16  Citizen   Hello, police operator?       
         Dispatcher   Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio.       
       Citizen   There's been a shooting out here.       
       Dispatcher   Where's it at?       
         Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio . . .       
       Citizen   Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   What location on Tenth Street?       
       Citizen   Between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What -- what's . . . 404         Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   Can you hear me?       
        (Man and woman's voices in background)       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Citizen   It's in a police car, number 10.       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Dispatcher (?)   78.       
       Citizen   Got that?       
       Citizen   Hello, police operator. Did you get that?       
       Dispatcher   Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 E. Jefferson.       
       Citizen   Thank you.       
       35 (Ptm. J.M. Lewis)   35.       
       259 (unknown)   259.       
       Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio: Remain off the radio now.

1:19    Dispatcher   10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19.

       602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
           Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

How convenient! LOLOL!

1:15   Dispatcher   10-4, 603. 1:15.       
    20 (Sgt. S.N. Burkhart)   20.       
    45 (Ptm. N.L. Stanglin)   45.       
    Dispatcher   45.       
    45   There's a minor accident in the 5700 block Live Oak. Do you want me to stay here or answer my call?        >
    Dispatcher   Handle the accident. Disregard Live Oak.       
    45   10-4.       
    Dispatcher   91.       
    91 (Ptm. W.D. Mentzel and Ptm. J.W. Courson)   222 en route?       
    Dispatcher   Yes.       
    91   What's his location?       
    Dispatcher   Location?       
    222 (Ptm. V.R. Nolan)   Sylvan and Colorado.       
    Dispatcher   Location?       
    222   Colorado and Sylvan.       
    Dispatcher   Sylvan and Colorado, 91.       
    91   10-4.       
1:16   Dispatcher   Signal 9, contact the manager, 4916 Live Oak. 1:16.       
    47 (Ptm. W.F. Morris)   4916 Live Oak.       
    69 (Ptm. A.R. Brock)   69 clear at the garage.       
    Dispatcher   69 clear. 1:16.
1:16  Citizen   Hello, police operator?       
         Dispatcher   Go ahead. Go ahead, citizen using the police radio.       
       Citizen   There's been a shooting out here.       
       Dispatcher   Where's it at?       
         Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio . . .       
       Citizen   Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   What location on Tenth Street?       
       Citizen   Between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. What -- what's . . . 404         Tenth Street.       
       Dispatcher   Can you hear me?       
        (Man and woman's voices in background)       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Citizen   It's in a police car, number 10.       
       Dispatcher   78.       
       Dispatcher (?)   78.       
       Citizen   Got that?       
       Citizen   Hello, police operator. Did you get that?       
       Dispatcher   Attention. Signal 19, police officer, 510 E. Jefferson.       
       Citizen   Thank you.       
       35 (Ptm. J.M. Lewis)   35.       
       259 (unknown)   259.       
       Dispatcher   The citizen using the police radio: Remain off the radio now.

1:19       602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
           Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.

     Dispatcher   10-4, 605. 1:19.

JohnM

So continue trolling it is 

How convenient! LOLOL!

The fact that there are all sorts of problems with the recordings between 1:09 and 1:15 is surely convenient for the official fairytale. Not so much for the fact-finders and the truth.

We're discussing Adams' timeline here, so don't even bother trying to divert the discussion to the Tippit murder. You won't get another reply.