TSBD Encirclement & Sealing.... Who? When? Where? Why? How?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I want to make a listing & timeline of Officers who did sentry duty around the TSBD soon after the shots.
Especially the west north & east sides of the TSBD.
This info might clarify the adventures of Vickie Adams & Sandra Style & Co.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3901.0.html
Info is hard to find. Please add any info that u know or come across.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Vickie Adams (& Sandra Styles), when she exited the Houston dock (about 100 sec after the shots),
said that she saw Officer Barnett talking to a man in a suite (probly Romack).
And Adams said that they did not see her (& Styles).
Romack did not see Adams, koz he was busy talking to Barnett (or he did see but forgot)(see memo below).
Adams described the man as wearing a suite, but, Romack was not wearing a suite, he was wearing a white shirt (as we can seen in the Hughes footage).
Below is the memorandum re Romack.

[Mitch Todd]

Vickie Adams (& Sandra Styles), when she exited the Houston dock (about 100 sec after the shots), said that she saw Officer Barnett talking to a man in a suite (probly Romack).
And Adams said that they did not see her (& Styles).
Romack did not see Adams, koz he was busy talking to Barnett (or he did see but forgot)(see memo below).
Adams described the man as wearing a suite, but, Romack was not wearing a suite, he was wearing a white shirt (as we can seen in the Hughes footage).
Below is the memorandum re Romack.

If Romack didn't see anyone exit through the back door of the TSBD, then Styles and Adams didn't leave by the dock, since the back doors open onto the dock.

Also, the officer that Adams said she saw was at the corner of Elm and Houston, near the front of the Despoitory, not the back. He can't be be talking to Romack.

[Martin Weidmann]

If Romack didn't see anyone exit through the back door of the TSBD, then Styles and Adams didn't leave by the dock, since the back doors open onto the dock.

Also, the officer that Adams said she saw was at the corner of Elm and Houston, near the front of the Despoitory, not the back. He can't be be talking to Romack.

If Romack didn't see anyone exit through the back door of the TSBD, then Styles and Adams didn't leave by the dock, since the back doors open onto the dock.

Hilarious. What kind of pathetic "logic" is this?

Adams and Styles have both confirmed that they left the building via the loading dock. If they didn't, how in the world would they have ended up west of the building where a police officer told them to go back in?
Also, when Adams saw the police officer he was talking to a man in plain clothes, which most likely was Romack, which means that Romack (and the police officer) were occupied when Adams and Styles left the building.

Also, the officer that Adams said she saw was at the corner of Elm and Houston, near the front of the Despoitory, not the back. He can't be be talking to Romack.

Adams did indeed say she saw a man in plain clothes, who she believed to be a police officer, at the corner of Houston and Elm but that was after she had arrived at the front entrance;

Miss ADAMS - There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat, and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was, because he was questioning people as if he were a police officer, and we noticed him take a colored boy away on a motorcycle, and this man was asking questions very efficaciously, and we said, "I guess he is maybe a reporter," and later on on television, there was a man that looked very similar to him, and he was identified as Ruby.

But when she left the building she saw an officer at standing about 2 yards of the curb [on Houston street]

Miss ADAMS - At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.
Mr. BELIN - No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.

You are mixing up two different sightings.

[Mitch Todd]

If Romack didn't see anyone exit through the back door of the TSBD, then Styles and Adams didn't leave by the dock, since the back doors open onto the dock.

Hilarious. What kind of pathetic "logic" is this?

Adams and Styles have both confirmed that they left the building via the loading dock. If they didn't, how in the world would they have ended up west of the building where a police officer told them to go back in?
Also, when Adams saw the police officer he was talking to a man in plain clothes, which most likely was Romack, which means that Romack (and the police officer) were occupied when Adams and Styles left the building.

Also, the officer that Adams said she saw was at the corner of Elm and Houston, near the front of the Despoitory, not the back. He can't be be talking to Romack.

Adams did indeed say she saw a man in plain clothes, who she believed to be a police officer, at the corner of Houston and Elm but that was after she had arrived at the front entrance;

Miss ADAMS - There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat, and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was, because he was questioning people as if he were a police officer, and we noticed him take a colored boy away on a motorcycle, and this man was asking questions very efficaciously, and we said, "I guess he is maybe a reporter," and later on on television, there was a man that looked very similar to him, and he was identified as Ruby.

But when she left the building she saw an officer at standing about 2 yards of the curb [on Houston street]

Miss ADAMS - At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.
Mr. BELIN - No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.

You are mixing up two different sightings.

The logic is straightforward and sound, no matter what you want to believe. Romack's account contradicts Adams' and Styles'. They have to be reconciled one way or another. Gratuitous use of the word "pathetic" as a substitute for reasoning won't fix the problem for you.

And I'm specifically talking about the "cop + man in suit" that she said she saw as she was leaving the building, a claim that first appears in her Mort Sahl interview. Come to think of it, did she repeat this to Ernst later? Before the Sahl interview, she'd only said that she saw an officer near the Elm/Houston corner when she was leaving. If she left early, or even remotely early, then he has to be Barnett. The other officers assigned to Elm and Main went to the rail yards and participated in auto inspections right after the assassination. As Marjan has noted, Romack could not be the man in the suit.

[Martin Weidmann]

The logic is straightforward and sound, no matter what you want to believe. Romack's account contradicts Adams' and Styles'. They have to be reconciled one way or another. Gratuitous use of the word "pathetic" as a substitute for reasoning won't fix the problem for you.

And I'm specifically talking about the "cop + man in suit" that she said she saw as she was leaving the building, a claim that first appears in her Mort Sahl interview. Come to think of it, did she repeat this to Ernst later? Before the Sahl interview, she'd only said that she saw an officer near the Elm/Houston corner when she was leaving. If she left early, or even remotely early, then he has to be Barnett. The other officers assigned to Elm and Main went to the rail yards and participated in auto inspections right after the assassination. As Marjan has noted, Romack could not be the man in the suit.

As Marjan has noted, Romack could not be the man in the suit.

Who was it then?

Romack's account contradicts Adams' and Styles'. They have to be reconciled one way or another.

The fact that Romack did not see Adams and Styles does not mean they were not there. There is no contradiction.

Besides, why would Adams and Styles lie about where they left the building?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

As Marjan has noted, Romack could not be the man in the suit.

Who was it then?

Romack's account contradicts Adams' and Styles'. They have to be reconciled one way or another.

The fact that Romack did not see Adams and Styles does not mean they were not there. There is no contradiction.

Besides, why would Adams and Styles lie about where they left the building?

I am thinking that Barnett was indeed talking to Romack.
There could not have been anyone else but Barnett & Romack in that area at less than 120 seconds.
No, Worrell was not in that area at that early time, but Worrell might have been the guy that Sam Pate saw running north many minutes after the shooting. And, that guy did not ever stop (& look back)(or see the killer exiting the dock & running south).
Romack we know had a white shirt & black pants. Strange, no-one wore black pants in 1963. Praps Romack was wearing a tie too.
He was a truck driver, but i think that he was the Office truck driver, & thusly might have dressed up a bit.
Anyhow, i think that Vickie Adams miss-remembered Romack as wearing a suite (no, he was just neatly dressed).
A few minutes later we did have Officers in suites (plain clothes) arriving at the dock (ie Deputy Sheriff Mooney & Co), but Adams was long gone by then.
Before Mooney we had Sam Pate (in a suite probly)(in his KBX radio van)(& his off-sider Dowdle), but that was 3 or 4 minutes after the shots (Adams was long gone).
The cop that stopped Adams (on the tracks NW of the TSBD) had to be Foster (who had been on duty on the TUP). Foster was imo the front runner (cop-wise) re taking sentry near the NW of the TSBD.
From that location Adams (& Styles) could have retraced her steps to the dock, but Adams decided to enter at the front of the TSBD, hence she continued to walk anticlockwise (South-West & then East) as this was the sensible short-cut to the front.
Shelley & Lovelady were near the grassy knoll carpark, & when they entered the TSBD (via the western ramp & door) Foster had (for some reason) already moved on (Foster ended up at the manhole on the south side of Elm St).

One problem is that Barnett never ever said that he talked to Romack.
Another problem is that Romack early on said that he had not talked to Barnett.
Barnett said that he did not leave the dock area until two plainclothes guys took sentry there. But that cant be true. Mooney & Co had to have taken many minutes to get to the dock. Praps Barnett was avoiding admitting that he had handed such a critical duty to a civilian.
And, after Mooney & Co (eventually) got to the dock (took sentry at the dock), Romack then relaxed his own sentry duty (but he did not return to his workplace for some time).

Barnett said that he passed the end of the TSBD by 20ft. But is that 20ft past the main building, or is it 20ft past the annexe.
Barnett said that he watched the cops searching the box-cars. But here he had to have been talking about the box-cars near the grassy knoll carpark, not the box cars near his dock.
To see the box-cars near the grassy knoll carpark Barnett had to have gone well past the box-cars parked near his dock. That would have placed Barnett much closer to Romack who was never very close to the TSBD.
But Adams said that Barnett was 2 yd from the kerb of Houston, but there was no such kerb near the tracks just north of the dock.
Still thinking.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I am thinking that Barnett was indeed talking to Romack.
There could not have been anyone else but Barnett & Romack in that area at less than 120 seconds.
No, Worrell was not in that area at that early time, but Worrell might have been the guy that Sam Pate saw running north many minutes after the shooting. And, that guy did not ever stop (& look back)(or see the killer exiting the dock & running south).
Romack we know had a white shirt & black pants. Strange, no-one wore black pants in 1963. Praps Romack was wearing a tie too.
He was a truck driver, but i think that he was the Office truck driver, & thusly might have dressed up a bit.
Anyhow, i think that Vickie Adams miss-remembered Romack as wearing a suite (no, he was just neatly dressed).
A few minutes later we did have Officers in suites (plain clothes) arriving at the dock (ie Deputy Sheriff Mooney & Co), but Adams was long gone by then.
Before Mooney we had Sam Pate (in a suite probly)(in his KBX radio van)(& his off-sider Dowdle), but that was 3 or 4 minutes after the shots (Adams was long gone).
The cop that stopped Adams (on the tracks NW of the TSBD) had to be Foster (who had been on duty on the TUP). Foster was imo the front runner (cop-wise) re taking sentry near the NW of the TSBD.
From that location Adams (& Styles) could have retraced her steps to the dock, but Adams decided to enter at the front of the TSBD, hence she continued to walk anticlockwise (South-West & then East) as this was the sensible short-cut to the front.
Shelley & Lovelady were near the grassy knoll carpark, & when they entered the TSBD (via the western ramp & door) Foster had (for some reason) already moved on (Foster ended up at the manhole on the south side of Elm St).

One problem is that Barnett never ever said that he talked to Romack.
Another problem is that Romack early on said that he had not talked to Barnett.
Barnett said that he did not leave the dock area until two plainclothes guys took sentry there. But that cant be true. Mooney & Co had to have taken many minutes to get to the dock. Praps Barnett was avoiding admitting that he had handed such a critical duty to a civilian.
And, after Mooney & Co (eventually) got to the dock (took sentry at the dock), Romack then relaxed his own sentry duty (but he did not return to his workplace for some time).

Barnett said that he passed the end of the TSBD by 20ft. But is that 20ft past the main building, or is it 20ft past the annexe.
Barnett said that he watched the cops searching the box-cars. But here he had to have been talking about the box-cars near the grassy knoll carpark, not the box cars near his dock.
To see the box-cars near the grassy knoll carpark Barnett had to have gone well past the box-cars parked near his dock. That would have placed Barnett much closer to Romack who was never very close to the TSBD.
But Adams said that Barnett was 2 yd from the kerb of Houston, but there was no such kerb near the tracks just north of the dock.
Still thinking.

Oswald takes 48 sec to get to the 2nd floor. Oswald spends a further 52 sec near the lunchroom. Oswald exits to Houston & walks north along Houston (say 40 sec)(total time say 140 sec).
Oswald sees Barnett on sentry at the dock. Oswald duz a u-turn & walks south along Houston (& then crosses Houston)(seen by Buell Frazier) (total time say 160 sec).
That fits (just). Barnett inferred that Barnett was near the dock untill almost 140 sec after the shots (Barnett said that he had returned to Elm St at about 150 sec).
So, at say 140 sec, Oswald was looking at Barnett (briefly)(before doing a u-turn), & Barnett was looking towards Oswald (briefly)(after starting to head south).
Yep, that works, just.

If Oswald was a little later, &/or if Barnett was a little earlier, they would have bumped into each other at the SE corner of the TSBD.
Oswald would have tried to look cool, & he would have apologized, & he would have continued (to get his jacket).
Barnett would have wiped the Coke off his uniform, & he would have apologized.
And Tippit would not have happened.