TSBD Encirclement & Sealing.... Who? When? Where? Why? How?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Ok, i am now thinking that it was Patrolman JC White that confronted Adams & Styles.
Duz anyone know of any other info re White's movements?
White's reference to a passing train is a mystery. Did a train pass soon after the shots. Has anyone any info?
I recall (photos) that White walked over & joined Officer Foster soon after the shots, ie before any train went throo.
White was a strange character, saw & heard nuthun (praps he was smarter than the others).

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Is there a rail there?
Mr. WHITE. *Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How many people were on that overpass that day?
Mr. WHITE. On the same side I was on?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. WHITE. None.
Mr. BALL. None? Any people attempt to come up on the overpass around noon?
Mr. WHITE. Not on my side.
Mr. BALL. They did not?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you seen your partner send any people away from the overpass?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You had certain instructions, didn’t you?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What were they?
Mr. WHITE. Not to let any unauthorized personnel on top of the overpass.
Mr. BALL. Now, you did permit some people to stay on the overpass, didn’t you?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who were they?
Mr. WHJJ~E. Workers of the railroad company.
Mr. BALL. Were they people you knew?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Well, how did you know they were workers with the railroad company?
Mr. WHITE. Majority of them were there when we got there, working on the rails.
Mr. BALL. And you let them stay there?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see the President’s car come into sight?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir; ilrst time I saw it it has passed, passed under the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. You were too far away to see it, were you?
Mr. WHITE. There was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing between the location I was standing and the area from which the procession was traveling, and-a big long freight train, and I did not see it.
Mr. BALL. You didn’t see the procession?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Before the train went by, did you see some railroad personnel over on the-would it be the---
Mr. WHITE. East side?
Mr. BALL. East side of the overpass?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. B~L. How many people?
Mr. WHITE. About 10, approximately. I didn’t count them.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear any shots?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BUL. Didn’t?
Mr. WHI’IIL No, sir.
Mr. BALL. First time you saw the President’s car it was going underneath?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. WHITE. As soon as the train passed I went over and on the northwest side of the Depository Building.
On the northwest side of the book store up there with the rest of the ofseers and after about 30 minutes they told me to go out and work tra5c at Main and Houston, and I stood out there and worked tra5c.
Mr. BALL. All right, now, you heard no sound of no rifle fire or anything?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.

[Martin Weidmann]

Ok, i am now thinking that it was Patrolman JC White that confronted Adams & Styles.
Duz anyone know of any other info re White's movements?
White's reference to a passing train is a mystery. Did a train pass soon after the shots. Has anyone any info?
I recall (photos) that White walked over & joined Officer Foster soon after the shots, ie before any train went throo.
White was a strange character, saw & heard nuthun (praps he was smarter than the others).

Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Is there a rail there?
Mr. WHITE. *Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How many people were on that overpass that day?
Mr. WHITE. On the same side I was on?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. WHITE. None.
Mr. BALL. None? Any people attempt to come up on the overpass around noon?
Mr. WHITE. Not on my side.
Mr. BALL. They did not?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you seen your partner send any people away from the overpass?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You had certain instructions, didn’t you?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What were they?
Mr. WHITE. Not to let any unauthorized personnel on top of the overpass.
Mr. BALL. Now, you did permit some people to stay on the overpass, didn’t you?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who were they?
Mr. WHJJ~E. Workers of the railroad company.
Mr. BALL. Were they people you knew?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Well, how did you know they were workers with the railroad company?
Mr. WHITE. Majority of them were there when we got there, working on the rails.
Mr. BALL. And you let them stay there?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see the President’s car come into sight?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir; ilrst time I saw it it has passed, passed under the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. You were too far away to see it, were you?
Mr. WHITE. There was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing between the location I was standing and the area from which the procession was traveling, and-a big long freight train, and I did not see it.
Mr. BALL. You didn’t see the procession?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Before the train went by, did you see some railroad personnel over on the-would it be the---
Mr. WHITE. East side?
Mr. BALL. East side of the overpass?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. B~L. How many people?
Mr. WHITE. About 10, approximately. I didn’t count them.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear any shots?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.
Mr. BUL. Didn’t?
Mr. WHI’IIL No, sir.
Mr. BALL. First time you saw the President’s car it was going underneath?
Mr. WHITE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. WHITE. As soon as the train passed I went over and on the northwest side of the Depository Building.
On the northwest side of the book store up there with the rest of the ofseers and after about 30 minutes they told me to go out and work tra5c at Main and Houston, and I stood out there and worked tra5c.
Mr. BALL. All right, now, you heard no sound of no rifle fire or anything?
Mr. WHITE. No, sir.

White's reference to a passing train is a mystery. Did a train pass soon after the shots. Has anyone any info?

I do remember having seen a train passing by the pergola next to the TSBD parking lot, but I can't recal where I saw that

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Photo below now edited to replace Foster with White.
Anyhow, i think we can ignore the puzzling reference to a train passing, & we can assume that White went to the NW cnr of the TSBD without delay.
In which case we can assume that White beat Adams & Styles to the NW cnr.
But, why did White go to the NW cnr?
I think that Foster told White about shots from up near the TSBD. And White took off immediately, & Foster followed White to near the TSBD later (after Foster had a brief look at the carpark with Brennan & Co).
White said that other Officers went to the TSBD too. Who were they?
Foster was one. The others ran to the grassy knoll & carpark from Houston (ie Smith & Smith), & some ran from Main St east of Houston (eg Deputy Sheriff Mooney & Co).
And of course some (on motorbikes) were from the motorcade itself.
But there were no Officers stationed in Elm St itself between Houston St & the TUP.
Anyhow, after wasting their time in & around the carpark, checking cars etc, some Officers took off & searched railway boxcars, &/or encircled the TSBD.
Mooney & Co took sentry near the Houston Dock for a while, at which time Romack relaxed his vigil (but he stayed put in that area for a while anyhow before returning to his workplace)(say 45 minutes).

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

White's reference to a passing train is a mystery. Did a train pass soon after the shots. Has anyone any info?

I do remember having seen a train passing by the pergola next to the TSBD parking lot, but I can't recal where I saw that

Bowers would have halted trains (on the TUP) untill the motorcade passed.
But i dont remember Bowers ever saying that he indeed halted a train.
I suspect that a train passed over the TUP a little before the motorcade passed, but while White was there.
I think that White's memory was foggy --- too many doughnuts (or was White smarter than the average bear?).

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

James Hackerott found the wordage of Foster in Sneed's No More Silence.

J.W. Foster in No More Silence, p212
 .................... “At the time the motorcade came through, there were about seven or eight people up there. As you looked down, I was standing over the third lane from the north curb of Elm Street. Four or five were  standing right in front of me, and there were several on down the trestle away from me.
Just prior to the shots, a three engine locomotive went by, so there wasn’t a lot that you could see or hear from up there even though the locomotive had already passed and just the boxcars were going by at the time the motorcade passed through.”...........................

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3564.88.html

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I think that Foster did not look around the carpark with Brennan.
And, Foster could not have confronted Adams & Styles, koz Foster says that he did not go to the TSBD until many minutes had passed.
Below is all that i could find on www re Foster in Sneed's book.

In lieu of an abstract, here is a brief excerpt of the content:
J.W. FOSTER Accident Investigator Dallas Police Department "You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the column where it struck the pedestrian. It appeared to have come from the north-east, approximately from the book store area, but we were never able to find the slug... " J. W. Foster was born in Italy, Texas, and was raised in nearby Hillsboro. After serving in the military, he worked at construction jobs fer ten years prior to joining the Dallas Police Department in 1955. For the next seven years he worked in Radio Patrol, and at the time of the assassination was an accident investigator. I was assigned to patrol the triple overpass over Elm Street and arrived down there about 9:30. Our orders were to keep all personnel off the railroad overpass. During the morning, there were several people who came up, and I told them they had to leave. I checked the ID's of the railroad people and tried to get them to leave, but they had the idea that I couldn't do that. If I'd have gotten them off, they would have probably pulled the engine up right behind me, which would have created a noise problem. So there wasn't much I could do about that.
212 NO MORE SILENCE At the time the motorcade came through, there were about seven or eight people up there. As you looked down, I was standing over the third lane from the north curb of Elm Street. Four or five were standing right in front of me, and there were several on down the trestle away from me. Just prior to the shots, a three engine locomotive went by, so there wasn't a lot that you could see or hear from up there even though the locomotive had already passed and just the boxcars were going by at the time the motorcade passed through. At about 12:30, I saw the motorcade as they came around the comer off of Houston onto Elm proceeding west. When they got about halfway between Houston and the Triple Underpass, I heard three distinct, evenly spaced shots. I could see into the car but couldn't really determine anything, but I did see Mrs. Kennedy crawl up on the back of the car and the driver of the vehicle swerve to his right and a Secret Service agent push her back into the car. From that point, they proceeded west on Elm Street to the Stemmons Freeway. At the time, all I could tell about the shots was that they all sounded about the same, and they came from back toward Elm and Houston Streets.
None of them came from the grassy knoll.
After the shooting, one officer ran up and said the shots came from the overpass, and I told him they didn't. Then I moved around to the end of the viaduct where somebody said some man had run up the railroad track from that location.
So I proceeded up to the yards to check the empty boxcars to see if anybody had run up that way.

I was in the yards maybe ten to fifteen minutes looking in the cars, but I didn't find anything.

Nor did I see anything suspicious behind the picket fence or see anyone with Secret Service or FBI identification, as some have stated.
From there I moved on down to the book store and walked on down to the south side of Elm.
The plaza had been freshly mowed the day before, thus I noticed this clump of sod that was laying there and was trying to find out what caused that clump of grass to be there. That's when I found where the bullet had struck the concrete skirt by the manhole cover and knocked that clump of grass up. Buddy Walthers, one of the sheriffs deputies, came up and talked to me about it, and we discussed the direction from which the bullet had come. It struck the skirt near the manhole cover
 l.W. FOSTER, ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR 213 and then hit this person who had stood by the column over on Commerce Street. He came by and had a cut on his face where the bullet had struck the column. You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the...

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Luke Mooney Larry Sneed University of North Texas Press  Chapter View Citation
Additional Information In lieu of an abstract, here is a brief excerpt of the content:
LUKE MOONEY Deputy Sheriff Writ and Execution Division Dallas County Sheriff's Department "While we were standing there, someone brought the word that the President was dead... There wasn't a sound. I then looked over between someone 's feet and there lay a carton of books broken open with the lid flapped back. Inside the carton was a paperback book, and on the cover was Christ Leads the Way with a picture of Jesus... " A native Texan, born in Hopkins County, eighty miles east of Dallas, and a veteran of the 764th Amphibious Tank Tractor Battalion in World War II, Luke Mooney, upon discharge in 1946 attended a business college and later worked in the automobile business. After declining a transfer to a new office in another state, Mooney, due to his background in legal matters, was asked by Sheriff Bill Decker in 1958 to join the sheriff's department in the Writ and Execution Division. I was merely a spectator with a number of other plain clothes officers on Main Street just north of the Old Red Court House. We in the sheriff's department had nothing to do with security. That had all been arranged by the Dallas Police Department, the Secret Service, and the FBI. I hadn't been out there long when the motorcade came by with the President and his wife, Governor Connally and his wife, along with all the Secret Service agents
L UK E MOO N E Y, DE PUT Y SHE R IFF 225 following on the running boards of the follow up open top vehicle. The crowd was very enthusiastic. I was close enough to have shaken hands with the President. As the motorcade passed by us, we never attempted to follow it around the corner at Houston and were still standing there when we heard a shot ring out. I knew immediately that it wasn't a backfire because, if you've ever been around weapons, you knew from the echo that it was a gun of some kind.
Several of us started moving toward Houston Street at the moment we heard the first shot. By the time we reached the street, the second shot had been fired, then there was a slight hesitation between the second and the third. We had already heard all three shots before we had reached Houston Street.
We then ran over into Dealey Plaza, crossed Elm, jumped over the wall of the embankment on what's now called the grassy knoll and headed toward the railroad yards. At that time, it seemed to have been the most logical place to begin looking unless you had actually known from where the shots originated, which I didn't. People were scattered in every direction. By that time, the motorcade was en route to Parkland up Stemmons Freeway and thus out of sight.
Other officers were everywhere already checking the parking lot behind the fence. We looked around and into some of the vehicles but didn't see anything unusual.
If we had seen anything that was obvious, we would have checked it out.
I'd estimate that I was in the parking lot area less than ten minutes; whereupon, I noticed a big open wire gate near the freight area of the Book Depository. I saw a citizen there and said,
             "Let's close this off, lock it, and don't let anybody in or out unless they're an officer with identification."

 I then went into the back of the Book Depository where the freight dock was located where there was also a back entrance to a series of offices. I knew how to operate a freight elevator, so we pushed the button and went up one floor. But after one floor, the power was cut and the elevator quit operating, so we took the stairs and went toward the upper levels.
I got off on the sixth floor while some of the others went to the seventh. All you could see were books stacked about head high. At that time, I didn't search the area thoroughly, but I
226 NO MORE SILENCE noticed that everything was quiet and nothing seemed disturbed, particularly over on the southwest corner where nothing was stacked. It appeared as though some carpenter work was being done. Noticing nothing out of the ordinary, I then went on up to the seventh floor. By that time, the others had already left that floor and it was dark, so I sent out...

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Jack Faulkner Larry Sneed University of North Texas Press Chapter View Citation
Additional Information   In lieu of an abstract, here is a brief excerpt of the content:
JACK FAULKNER Deputy Sheriff Criminal Investigation Division Dallas County Sheriff's Department "We had many people inside the Texas School Book Depository tell us that those shots didn't come from that building. That was understandable since I have seen deer shot at and, not knowing which way the bullet came from, they would look all around not knowing which way to run. It's hard to determine where a shot comes from a rifle... " Born and raised in Dallas, Jack Faulkner lived next door to Bill Decker, who was elected sheriff of Dallas County in 1948. Faulkner then joined the sheriffs department on January 1, 1949. I was a criminal investigator working out of the sheriffs office downtown and was standing outside the office waiting to see the President, as were many of the other deputies, since the sheriffs department had no role in the security for the parade. This was not unusual since the Dallas police were responsible for events inside the city, while the sheriffs department dealt with matters outside the city, but still inside Dallas County. Much has been written about how unpopular John Kennedy was in Dallas, but as the Presidential parade came down Main Street right in front of the office where the deputies were standing, that obviously wasn't true because I saw the crowds
216 NO MORE SILENCE cheering him as he drove by. I certainly didn't see anybody that hated him. The sheriff was in the parade along with Chief Curry, who was driving and leading the parade. But, of course, everybody wanted to see the President of the United States. I recall very well Jackie wearing the pink outfit and the smiles that John Kennedy had when they turned the corner off Main onto Houston. It was all very inspiring!
When they turned back onto Elm Street and headed toward the Triple Underpass, then I heard three very distinct shots. I'll never forget the sequence: there was a pause between number one and number two, then number two and three were rapid. At that time, I actually thought that someone had attempted to shoot the President and possibly the Secret Service had shot back. It was that fast!
A.D. McCurley and myself moved down the knoll that's just west of Houston Street between Main and Elm Streets. People were pointing back toward the railroad yards, so we headed in that direction.
As we were crossing Elm Street, McCurley picked up a white piece of bone near the north curb. He asked me,
"Do you suppose that could be part of his skull?"
I said, "There's no blood on it," and he put it down. Later, we got to thinking, and somebody said your skull doesn't necessarily have to be touching something that's bloody. We went back and looked for it later but never found it. To this day, I believe it was a piece of John Kennedy's skull.
In any case, when we reached the grassy knoll, people were lying down trying to dodge the bullets.
There were quite a few people and officers searching the parking lot and going through railroad cars in the railroad yards, but of course, there was nothing. I really didn't do that myself. There was probably as much mass confusion as you can imagine because no one was in charge, but everyone was doing what they were trained to do. I know my partner, who was on the other side of the street, started gathering people to take statements.
We then went up in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building where a little black boy was telling a police sergeant that he had seen a man shoot out of that building. The sergeant then related that information to us. So Bill Wiseman, A.D. McCurley, Joe Lorraine, who had been a former deputy who worked for the State Labor Board, and I took it from there and went in the front door of the building. This was about ten minutes
JACK FAULKNER, SHERIFF'S DEPUTY 217           after the shooting. At that time, the building had not yet been sealed by the police. We contacted the manager who said,
 "Well, everybody is still here that was here when the parade went through when the shooting occurred except Lee Oswald."
We then went up the freight elevator and began searching. I was expecting to see someone with a gun, so I had my gun out...