T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Michael Capasse]

Why would anyone fake Oswald's presence on the bus?  Think of the effort and risk to do so.  The fantasy conspirators would have to figure out which bus was in the vicinity.  Convince the passengers to either confirm Oswald's presence or at least not deny that he got on the bus.  They would have to somehow get a bus transfer from the driver.  They would then have to make sure Oswald was not in the presence of anyone else during this timeframe.  So many variables to handle on the fly in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.  And for what purpose?  The bus takes him nowhere.  He gets off and takes a cab.  It's ridiculous to suggest the bus to nowhere was the product of any conspiracy plan.  In a plan, everything has purpose.  You don't stage things to unnecessarily complicate what is already a complex and risky operation for no apparent reason.

you just made up an entire "fantasy plan" and then crossed it all out because it would never work.

[Richard Smith]

you just made up an entire "fantasy plan" and then crossed it all out because it would never work.

Not following.  I didn't make up anything.  Another poster suggested that Oswald was never on the bus even though he had a transfer from the bus driver in his pocket.  I just pointed out that faking Oswald's presence on the bus would be pointless and risky since it does not advance any apparent objective.  The bus doesn't go anywhere, and he quickly gets off.  If you disagree, maybe form your response in terms of a complete thought.  Let me help get you started.  "I believe Oswald was/was not on the bus because..."

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Not following.  I didn't make up anything.  Another poster suggested that Oswald was never on the bus even though he had a transfer from the bus driver in his pocket.  I just pointed out that faking Oswald's presence on the bus would be pointless and risky since it does not advance any apparent objective.  The bus doesn't go anywhere, and he quickly gets off.  If you disagree, maybe form your response in terms of a complete thought.  Let me help get you started.  "I believe Oswald was/was not on the bus because..."

Always happens. We cite the conspiracy claims, point out the illogic of it, how it doesn't make sense, how there's no evidence for it and then the response it "You just made that up, it's a strawman!!"

This is the same poster who says Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City and then Hoover, who knew about the double, blabs about it on a call to LBJ. Then they publish the call where Hoover exposes the impersonation. Right, Hoover knew who the person was, that it was part of a plan to incriminate Cuba, and then Hoover reveals the plan! He doesn't keep it quiet. But I made that all up?

[Richard Smith]

Always happens. We cite the conspiracy claims, point out the illogic of it, how it doesn't make sense, how there's no evidence for it and then the response it "You just made that up, it's a strawman!!"

This is the same poster who says Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City and then Hoover, who knew about the double, blabs about it on a call to LBJ. Then they publish the call where Hoover exposes the impersonation. Right, Hoover knew who the person was, that it was part of a plan to incriminate Cuba, and then Hoover reveals the plan! He doesn't keep it quiet. But I made that all up?

Yes, it's the old blow smoke and imply there is a fire technique.  Never pausing to explain the consequences of their own claims having validity.  Why fake Oswald's presence on the bus or in Mexico City if he was never in those places?  Think of the risk and complexity to get everyone involved to go along with these efforts including random folks on a bus or employees of the Russian and Cuban embassies.  The CTer mind has to conjure some anomaly in the case which might lend itself to suspicion but then ignore everything else that runs counter to the claim including logic, common sense, and the evidence.

[Zeon Mason]

Just want to clarify that I was NOT suggesting some conspirator got on the bus pretending to be Oswald. That certainly would be an unnecessary thing to be done by conspirators

What I was suggesting was to discard THIS PART of the WC scenario for  Oswald’s route from leaving TSBD to getting to Whaleys taxi.

Bledsoe account of seeing Oswald on the bus wearing a brown shirt with hole in the sleeve cannot be accepted as valid if Oswald was not wearing that brown shirt yet. Therefore her ID of Oswald must be doubted.

McWatters never did actually ID Oswald as the man he gave a ticket too. Therefore more reasonable  doubt that Oswald was ever on that bus.

If the premise is that Oswald’s intent after leaving TSBD as early as 12:34 was to get back to the boarding house asap, the most logical thing would be to get a taxi directly and it would cost him just a mere 90 cents of that 13 dollars he was carrying.

So for we know there was just some man who banged on the bus door, sat down for a few minutes ,  got a transfer ticket from McWatters about 12:43  , then that man left the bus and know telling where he went from there.

Bill Brown was trying to work out this time line anomaly in a more complicated way (imo) and my suggestion was to simply eliminate the bus ride account as “unconfirmed” and in doing so, Oswald going directly to the taxi  being a logical  route if his intent was to return to the boarding house ASAP would have Oswald entering Whaleys taxi as early as 12:40.

[Bill Brown]

Why would anyone fake Oswald's presence on the bus?  Think of the effort and risk to do so.  The fantasy conspirators would have to figure out which bus was in the vicinity.  Convince the passengers to either confirm Oswald's presence or at least not deny that he got on the bus.  They would have to somehow get a bus transfer from the driver.  They would then have to make sure Oswald was not in the presence of anyone else during this timeframe.  So many variables to handle on the fly in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.  And for what purpose?  The bus takes him nowhere.  He gets off and takes a cab.  It's ridiculous to suggest the bus to nowhere was the product of any conspiracy plan.  In a plan, everything has purpose.  You don't stage things to unnecessarily complicate what is already a complex and risky operation for no apparent reason.

Agreed.

For what it's worth, I talked to Roy Milton Jones last year.  For those who don't know, Jones was on the McWatters bus at the same time as Oswald.  Jones told me that he boarded the bus near Crozier Tech High School.  I asked him if he specifically remembered Oswald boarding the bus.  He said that he did not remember because it was not conspicuous.  I asked him if he remembers Oswald being on the bus.  He told me that after he saw Oswald's picture on the news, he remembered seeing Oswald on the bus.  I then asked him flat out if Oswald, in his opinion, was on the bus and he said "Yes".

[Richard Smith]

Just want to clarify that I was NOT suggesting some conspirator got on the bus pretending to be Oswald. That certainly would be an unnecessary thing to be done by conspirators

What I was suggesting was to discard THIS PART of the WC scenario for  Oswald’s route from leaving TSBD to getting to Whaleys taxi.

Bledsoe account of seeing Oswald on the bus wearing a brown shirt with hole in the sleeve cannot be accepted as valid if Oswald was not wearing that brown shirt yet. Therefore her ID of Oswald must be doubted.

McWatters never did actually ID Oswald as the man he gave a ticket too. Therefore more reasonable  doubt that Oswald was ever on that bus.

If the premise is that Oswald’s intent after leaving TSBD as early as 12:34 was to get back to the boarding house asap, the most logical thing would be to get a taxi directly and it would cost him just a mere 90 cents of that 13 dollars he was carrying.

So for we know there was just some man who banged on the bus door, sat down for a few minutes ,  got a transfer ticket from McWatters about 12:43  , then that man left the bus and know telling where he went from there.

Bill Brown was trying to work out this time line anomaly in a more complicated way (imo) and my suggestion was to simply eliminate the bus ride account as “unconfirmed” and in doing so, Oswald going directly to the taxi  being a logical  route if his intent was to return to the boarding house ASAP would have Oswald entering Whaleys taxi as early as 12:40.

Oswald had a transfer from the bus in his pocket.  It was given to him that day.  Your choices are that Oswald got on the bus or there was a conspiracy to frame him and for some unknown reason the fantasy conspirators decided to fake his presence on the bus.   The evidence elminates any other possibilities like a mistaken identification.

[Michael Capasse]

...

Has Brown ever properly documented his call with Jones?
It's a shame the WC never called Jones to clarify what he saw.
And a disgrace the lineup fill ins were cops dressed in suits - but it did make the choice more obvious:

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, just like I say, he was the shortest man in the lineup, in other words, when they brought these
men out there, in other words, he was about the shortest, and the lightest weight one, I guess, was the reason I
say that he looked like the man, because the rest of them were larger men than--

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. BALL - Now you have named him Milton Jones.
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, he was--

Mr. BALL - Now you realize you were mistaken in your identification that night?
Mr. McWATTERS - That is right.

Mr. BALL - As I understand it, neither then nor now are you able to identify or say that you have again
seen the man that got off your bus to whom you gave a transfer?

Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; I couldn't. I could not identify him.

https://jfk.boards.net/post/7404/thread

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ted Callaway  | WC Testimony

Mr. CALLAWAY. We first went into the room. There was Jim Leavelle, the detective, Sam Guinyard, and then this busdriver and myself.
We waited down there for probably 20 or 30 minutes. And Jim told us, "When I show you these guys, be sure,. take your time,
see if you can make a positive identification."

Mr. BALL. Had you known him before?

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer.
We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him."
So they brought four men in.