T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Bill Brown]

Stop trying to rewrite history. I already know that you will never admit to being wrong about anything, even though you keep claiming falsely that you would admit being wrong if proven so.

And no appeal to "authority" will help you either. That - as you claim - Bugliosi and Meyers agree with you, does not mean you were right. It only means they - like you - have an agenda and were wrong also as the facts are obvious and against you.

No Sir.  The audio of the actual police tapes tells you that I was right, re: Callaway's call and how it relates to the ambulance pulling away, etc...
Prove me wrong and I will easily admit it.  I have before.  Your issue is that you haven't shown where I was wrong about anything.

[Martin Weidmann]

No Sir.  The audio of the actual police tapes tells you that I was right, re: Callaway's call and how it relates to the ambulance pulling away, etc...
Prove me wrong and I will easily admit it.  I have before.  Your issue is that you haven't shown where I was wrong about anything.

Your issue is that you haven't shown where I was wrong about anything.

You have been proven wrong and now you have proven that my statement about you never admitting being wrong is correct 

Btw, you have never ever proven the claim you made about Callaway. All you have done is claim you are right and ask to be proven wrong. "

It's the typical LN mantra "I am right unless you prove me wrong, but you can't prove me wrong because I am right. So sad!

[Bill Brown]

Your issue is that you haven't shown where I was wrong about anything.

You have been proven wrong and now you have proven that my statement about you never admitting being wrong is correct 

Btw, you have never ever proven the claim you made about Callaway. All you have done is claim you are right and ask to be proven wrong. "

It's the typical LN mantra "I am right unless you prove me wrong, but you can't prove me wrong because I am right. So sad!

Again, the audio of the actual police tapes tells you that I was right, re: Callaway's call and how it relates to the ambulance pulling away, etc...

[Martin Weidmann]

My point should be obvious.  The Hertz clock needs to be off by six or seven minutes in order for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.


But... and this is the important part... Bowles never says anything even remotely close to the idea that the clocks could be six or seven minutes apart/off, which is what is required for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.


No matter how you spin it, it is perfectly reasonable for one to be a block from the bus stop (on their way to that stop) eight minutes (1:14) before the bus is to arrive (1:22).

My point should be obvious.  The Hertz clock needs to be off by six or seven minutes in order for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

No. It could be the Hertz clock by itself was (for example) two minutes off, already making the DPD time stamps two minutes wrong at the time of the Kennedy shooting.
Add the comments by Bowles about no adjustments being made at busy time makes it realistically possible that the time discrepancy grew bigger during the hour after Kennedy being shot.

But... and this is the important part... Bowles never says anything even remotely close to the idea that the clocks could be six or seven minutes apart/off, which is what is required for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

Again, what clocks are you talking about? It is true that Bowles never said that any one particular clock could be six or seven minutes off, but he did point out that individual clocks had margins of error which of course could end up to a 6 or 7 minute difference in total. Why are you cherry picking the evidence?

No matter how you spin it, it is perfectly reasonable for one to be a block from the bus stop (on their way to that stop) eight minutes (1:14) before the bus is to arrive (1:22).

Yes, that's perfectly reasonable when you believe you get on the bus at 1:22.

But that's not what Markham believed. She said she got her bus (either a delayed 1:12 or 1:22) at 1:15, which means that in her mind she needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1:15, making it utterly unreasonable to believe she would still be one block away from the bus stop at 1:14. Even less so, as she claimed she started walking to the bus stop at 1:06 or 1:07. A three minute walk (which means walking really slow) would have gotten her to 10th and Patton at 1:10 at the latest. So why would she still be there at 1:14? Can you explain that?

[Martin Weidmann]

Again, the audio of the actual police tapes tells you that I was right, re: Callaway's call and how it relates to the ambulance pulling away, etc...

You can make the same claim a 1000 times more and still you will not be correct. What you believe is not evidence!

As I proved conclusively in our mini-debate is that the ambulance driver tried to make two calls to the dispatcher to tell him the victim was a police officer.
This happened before Tippit was lifted into the ambulance.

You mistakenly claimed that one of those two calls was made to inform the dispatcher that the ambulance was leaving.
The ambulance driver, Butler, confirmed that you were wrong in the Nash interview.

[Bill Brown]

My point should be obvious.  The Hertz clock needs to be off by six or seven minutes in order for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

No. It could be the Hertz clock by itself was (for example) two minutes off, already making the DPD time stamps two minutes wrong at the time of the Kennedy shooting.
Add the comments by Bowles about no adjustments being made at busy time makes it realistically possible that the time discrepancy grew bigger during the hour after Kennedy being shot.

But... and this is the important part... Bowles never says anything even remotely close to the idea that the clocks could be six or seven minutes apart/off, which is what is required for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

Again, what clocks are you talking about? It is true that Bowles never said that any one particular clock could be six or seven minutes off, but he did point out that individual clocks had margins of error which of course could end up to a 6 or 7 minute difference in total. Why are you cherry picking the evidence?

No matter how you spin it, it is perfectly reasonable for one to be a block from the bus stop (on their way to that stop) eight minutes (1:14) before the bus is to arrive (1:22).

Yes, that's perfectly reasonable when you believe you get on the bus at 1:22.

But that's not what Markham believed. She said she got her bus (either a delayed 1:12 or 1:22) at 1:15, which means that in her mind she needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1:15, making it utterly unreasonable to believe she would still be one block away from the bus stop at 1:14. Even less so, as she claimed she started walking to the bus stop at 1:06 or 1:07. A three minute walk (which means walking really slow) would have gotten her to 10th and Patton at 1:10 at the latest. So why would she still be there at 1:14? Can you explain that?

My point should be obvious.  The Hertz clock needs to be off by six or seven minutes in order for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

No. It could be the Hertz clock by itself was (for example) two minutes off, already making the DPD time stamps two minutes wrong at the time of the Kennedy shooting.

"Could be"  LOL

But... and this is the important part... Bowles never says anything even remotely close to the idea that the clocks could be six or seven minutes apart/off, which is what is required for the Tippit shooting to have taken place before 1:10.

Again, what clocks are you talking about? It is true that Bowles never said that any one particular clock could be six or seven minutes off, but he did point out that individual clocks had margins of error which of course could end up to a 6 or 7 minute difference in total.

Six or seven minutes difference in total?  No.  Bowles pointed out no such "margins of error".  You're just making stuff up or you've completely forgotten just what it was that Bowles said.  Yes, perhaps you need to go "dig it up" and read it again.

No matter how you spin it, it is perfectly reasonable for one to be a block from the bus stop (on their way to that stop) eight minutes (1:14) before the bus is to arrive (1:22).

Yes, that's perfectly reasonable when you believe you get on the bus at 1:22.

But that's not what Markham believed. She said she got her bus (either a delayed 1:12 or 1:22) at 1:15, which means that in her mind she needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1:15, making it utterly unreasonable to believe she would still be one block away from the bus stop at 1:14. Even less so, as she claimed she started walking to the bus stop at 1:06 or 1:07. A three minute walk (which means walking really slow) would have gotten her to 10th and Patton at 1:10 at the latest. So why would she still be there at 1:14? Can you explain that?

Ball basically asked Markham what time do you "get your bus".  A strange way to ask a question.  We can't know how Markham perceived that non-descript question and therefore we cannot know what she meant by her answer.  She replied "1:15".  Since there was no 1:15 bus and she would regularly miss her bus if she gets to the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:12 bus, I am left to conclude that she regularly caught the 1:22 bus, getting there around 1:15.  If my conclusion is correct, then it's reasonable that she's still one block away (at Tenth and Patton) at 1:14.

As for her estimate that she left her apartment at 1:07ish, the police tapes, combined with the descriptions and actions of MANY other witnesses, tell me that she left her apartment later than that.

You see, I'll take hard physical evidence (the police tapes) over a lady's estimate of when it was that she left her apartment.
You have no proof that Markham left her apartment around 1:07, only her claim.  On the other hand, the police tapes, combined with the actions of other witnesses, suggest that she left her apartment 5 minutes later.

[Bill Brown]

You can make the same claim a 1000 times more and still you will not be correct. What you believe is not evidence!

As I proved conclusively in our mini-debate is that the ambulance driver tried to make two calls to the dispatcher to tell him the victim was a police officer.
This happened before Tippit was lifted into the ambulance.

You mistakenly claimed that one of those two calls was made to inform the dispatcher that the ambulance was leaving.
The ambulance driver, Butler, confirmed that you were wrong in the Nash interview.

You can make the same claim a 1,000 times more and still you will not be correct.  The police tapes themselves tell you everything you need to know, re: whether or not Callaway helped load the body before or after his call.  Same holds true for J.C. Butler.

[Martin Weidmann]

"Could be"  LOL


Six or seven minutes difference in total?  No.  Bowles pointed out no such "margins of error".  You're just making stuff up or you've completely forgotten just what it was that Bowles said.  Yes, perhaps you need to go "dig it up" and read it again.


Ball basically asked Markham what time do you "get your bus".  A strange way to ask a question.  We can't know how Markham perceived that non-descript question and therefore we cannot know what she meant by her answer.  She replied "1:15".  Since there was no 1:15 bus and she would regularly miss her bus if she gets to the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:12 bus, I am left to conclude that she regularly caught the 1:22 bus, getting there around 1:15.  If my conclusion is correct, then it's reasonable that she's still one block away (at Tenth and Patton) at 1:14.

As for her estimate that she left her apartment at 1:07ish, the police tapes, combined with the descriptions and actions of MANY other witnesses, tell me that she left her apartment later than that.

You see, I'll take hard physical evidence (the police tapes) over a lady's estimate of when it was that she left her apartment.
You have no proof that Markham left her apartment around 1:07, only her claim.  On the other hand, the police tapes, combined with the actions of other witnesses, suggest that she left her apartment 5 minutes later.

"Could be"  LOL

Are you claiming the Hertz clock could not be off by a couple of minutes? You seem hesitant to claim it displayed the absolutely correct time. Why is that? Are you not so sure of yourself as you pretend to be?

Six or seven minutes difference in total?  No.  Bowles pointed out no such "margins of error".  You're just making stuff up or you've completely forgotten just what it was that Bowles said.  Yes, perhaps you need to go "dig it up" and read it again.

Stop being patronizing. It doesn't impress. Who said that Bowles pointed out such "margin of error"? You are misrepresenting what I said. Never a good sign if you want to convince anybody.

Funny enough, you seem to feel that the DPD time stamps could not have been 6 or 7 minutes wrong, but at the same time you suggest that Bowley's watch was wrong by that same margin, without providing a shred of evidence for it.
Even worse, you simply ignore the time needed by Bowles to get from the school where he picked up his daughter to 10th street. Very weak indeed.

Ball basically asked Markham what time do you "get your bus".  A strange way to ask a question.  We can't know how Markham perceived that non-descript question and therefore we cannot know what she meant by her answer.  She replied "1:15".  Since there was no 1:15 bus and she would regularly miss her bus if she gets to the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:12 bus, I am left to conclude that she regularly caught the 1:22 bus, getting there around 1:15.  If my conclusion is correct, then it's reasonable that she's still one block away (at Tenth and Patton) at 1:14.

Oh boy... and you complain about spinning the evidence? Hilarious! First of all, you seem to be claiming that the buses always drove on time and exactly according to their schedule. Without that, your entire argument is moot.
Markham said she got her bus at 1:15 and that means that in her mind she must have been at Jefferson at that time. Period. Your conclusion is based on selfserving flawed arguments and as such worthless.

As for her estimate that she left her apartment at 1:07ish,

1:07ish? Where exactly did she say that?

the police tapes, combined with the descriptions and actions of MANY other witnesses, tell me that she left her apartment later than that.

There are no police tapes or witness statements that tell you anything about the time Markham left her apartment. None whatsoever. You just made it up, because you don't like what Markham actually said.

You see, I'll take hard physical evidence (the police tapes) over a lady's estimate of when it was that she left her apartment.

Say what? Oh boy, the quality of your silly claims is going downhill fast.

You have no proof that Markham left her apartment around 1:07, only her claim. 

The witness' statement under oath is evidence and proof. But I can understand why you don't like that.

On the other hand, the police tapes, combined with the actions of other witnesses, suggest that she left her apartment 5 minutes later.

Ok, I'll play. Pray tell, where do these tapes and witnesses make that suggestion?