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Author Topic: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17  (Read 12414 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #152 on: June 23, 2024, 06:28:05 PM »
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The first report on the shooting by Merriman Smith/UPI was sent out by UPI at 12:34. Smith, riding in the fourth car behind the presidential limo, said after hearing the shots that he grabbed the radio telephone from Jack Bell, the AP reporter riding with him, and contacted the UPI offices. He gave his report to the UPI Division Editor, Jack Fallon, and asked him to read it back to him. Fallon said that due to the static on the phone he asked Smith to repeat it three times.

Next, UPI bureau Staff Editor Don Smith typed out the first bulletin while Fallon talked, or tried to, with Smith. The bulletin was then handed to teletype operator Jim Tolbert, who keyed the words onto perforated paper tape that fed the teletype machines where it then went out to the various news organizations around the country.

So how much time is that between Smith hearing the last shot, calling it in, connecting with his editor, giving his report, having it checked, and then going out over the teletype? Four minutes? Three? Two? If the Hertz clock was off it wasn't by much. Unless one wants to argue the UPI clock was also well off.



Story details: https://www.upi.com/Archives/2003/11/14/UPIs-Pulitzer-winning-coverage-of-JFK/4008667018804/

Great point, Steve.

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #152 on: June 23, 2024, 06:28:05 PM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #153 on: June 24, 2024, 05:30:53 AM »
In which we learn that because a wrong like double murder was committed in the past it is not a big deal.  Poor Oswald.  So many people are still picking on him.  Hitler and Jack the Ripper must welcome this interpretation of history.  Everyone should just leave them alone and get over it.  It happened in the past.  HA HA HA.  Comedy gold.

Martin's reply says a lot about the cold, twisted thinking processes of a Conspiracy Theorist, and in direct contrast, the perverted irony that 60 years later, people like Martin still fight with every fiber of their existence for Oswald's innocence, Go Figure!
Then without any human sympathy, go on to claim that caring about family members, many of which are still alive today, should be seen as a forgotten relic of the past??

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 05:35:35 AM by John Mytton »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #154 on: June 26, 2024, 12:53:24 AM »
That’s a biased opinion from JohnM about the nature/mind of conspiracy theorists (imo) 🙃

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #154 on: June 26, 2024, 12:53:24 AM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2024, 11:56:17 AM »
That’s a biased opinion from JohnM about the nature/mind of conspiracy theorists (imo) 🙃

Oh Really?

Based on the evidence, LNers believe that on the 22nd, Oswald killed two men. End of story.

On the other hand by definition, CT's have to accuse vast numbers of innocent people of the evil conspiring to kill Kennedy and Tippit and thus forever ruining these guiltless women/men's illustrious reputations/careers and by extension their poor suffering families who are aware of the unproven demented accusations, have to endure a lifetime of unwarranted heartache.
Zeon, I hope you are proud of yourself!

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 11:59:54 AM by John Mytton »

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #156 on: June 30, 2024, 11:41:42 PM »
Oh Really?

Based on the evidence, LNers believe that on the 22nd, Oswald killed two men. End of story.

On the other hand by definition, CT's have to accuse vast numbers of innocent people of the evil conspiring to kill Kennedy and Tippit and thus forever ruining these guiltless women/men's illustrious reputations/careers and by extension their poor suffering families who are aware of the unproven demented accusations, have to endure a lifetime of unwarranted heartache.
Zeon, I hope you are proud of yourself!

JohnM

Based on the evidence, LNers believe that on the 22nd, Oswald killed two men. End of story.

It is not based on the evidence at all.
It is based on what the Warren Commission told you to believe. End of story.
Your perverse defence of the sick joke that was supposed to pass as an unbiased investigation of the facts surrounding this case is the cause of any continued suffering.
The evidence that this investigation was profoundly incompetent is overwhelming.
The evidence that this investigation was corrupt is equally overwhelming.
Your wilfully blind defence of this investigation is an insult to anything even remotely representing justice or truth.
I hope you are proud of yourself.

The Conspiracy Theorist "community" is an embarrassment to rationality, sanity and common sense. The extreme nature of nearly all proposed theories is disturbing, to say the least, and this forum often feels like a home for the mentally ill.
I wish there was a way to discuss the troubling issues that surround this case without being lumped in with these lunatics but it is a convenient way for Nutters to avoid having to answer the countless issues that plague this case.
The great irony is that Nutters have exactly the same mentality as Tinfoilers - There is no reasoning with it. There is no evidence, no argument that can ever change it.

Nutters should be every bit as ashamed as Tinfoil dickheads for their contribution to understanding this case.

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #156 on: June 30, 2024, 11:41:42 PM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #157 on: July 01, 2024, 03:35:25 AM »
Based on the evidence, LNers believe that on the 22nd, Oswald killed two men. End of story.

It is not based on the evidence at all.
It is based on what the Warren Commission told you to believe. End of story.
Your perverse defence of the sick joke that was supposed to pass as an unbiased investigation of the facts surrounding this case is the cause of any continued suffering.
The evidence that this investigation was profoundly incompetent is overwhelming.
The evidence that this investigation was corrupt is equally overwhelming.
Your wilfully blind defence of this investigation is an insult to anything even remotely representing justice or truth.
I hope you are proud of yourself.

The Conspiracy Theorist "community" is an embarrassment to rationality, sanity and common sense. The extreme nature of nearly all proposed theories is disturbing, to say the least, and this forum often feels like a home for the mentally ill.
I wish there was a way to discuss the troubling issues that surround this case without being lumped in with these lunatics but it is a convenient way for Nutters to avoid having to answer the countless issues that plague this case.
The great irony is that Nutters have exactly the same mentality as Tinfoilers - There is no reasoning with it. There is no evidence, no argument that can ever change it.

Nutters should be every bit as ashamed as Tinfoil dickheads for their contribution to understanding this case.

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It is not based on the evidence at all.

Well actually Dan, Oswald's guilt is and always will be based on the evidence and the fact that you deny this solid evidence is your problem.

Quote
It is based on what the Warren Commission told you to believe.

You do realize that the Dallas Police charged Oswald with the murders of Kennedy and Tippit on the very first weekend and then the WC confirmed this fact and then 15 years the HSCA determined that Oswald killed Kennedy.

Conclusions regarding the Kennedy assassination
On the Kennedy assassination, the HSCA concluded in its 1979 report that:
[1]Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy. The second and third shots Oswald fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.


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Your perverse defence of the sick joke that was supposed to pass as an unbiased investigation of the facts surrounding this case is the cause of any continued suffering.

Calm down, it's been 60 years and there still is no evidence whatsoever that anybody but Oswald killed Kennedy and Tippit. But if you are willing to tell me who or what pulled the trigger then I may listen! Heck, if you could tell me who was the mastermind behind the conspiracy, then you may have something but something tells me you ain't got nothing but some vague doubt based on some unsubstantiated suspicion. Don't worry many keen conspiracy theorist's with a lot more time on their hands than you have looked into every aspect of this case and collectively they are no closer to solving this "conspiracy" than they were on day 1 of their endless pursuit!

Quote
The evidence that this investigation was profoundly incompetent is overwhelming.

There is certain aspects of this case that with hindsight I would have handled differently, sure, but there is nothing specifically that casts a shadow of a doubt that Oswald was the only guilty party.

Quote
The evidence that this investigation was corrupt is equally overwhelming.

Wow, who do you believe was "corrupt", what's your proof and what do you believe was their motivation?

Quote
Your wilfully blind defence of this investigation is an insult to anything even remotely representing justice or truth.

Blind? I'm looking at the exact same evidence as you!!

Oswald defected to the enemy.

Oswald against his usual procedure, goes home mid week.

Oswald tells Frazier that he was picking up curtain rods but tells the Police he only had his lunch.

Oswald tells the Police that he kept his lunch with him in the front seat yet Frazier questions Oswald about the long package on the back seat of his car.

No curtain rods are ever found.

A long empty package with Oswald's prints is recovered in the Sniper's nest.

The shells from Oswald's rifle are found on the floor of the Sniper's nest.

The recovered fragments recovered from the Limo are exclusively matched to Oswald's rifle.

There is still no evidence that Oswald's' rifle was planted.

Oswald uncharacteristically leaves behind his wedding ring.

Oswald leaves the majority of his money with Marina.

Oswald walks uncharacteristically 50 feet ahead of Frazier as the walk to the depository.

Oswald has no alibi at the time of the shots.

Oswald's relatively fresh prints are on the rifle rest and the box used as a seat in the snipers nest.

Oswald who was a political fanatic and supposedly liked Kennedy said he was in the lunchroom and didn't ask anyone what happened.

Outside there was screaming and commotion yet at that precise point in time, Oswald wants a coke?

Oswald flees the scene within a few minutes.

Instead of waiting at the bus stop at Houston and Elm, Oswald in his frenzied flight walks past the bus stop and bashes on a door of a bus stuck in traffic.

Oswald continues his panicked flight as gets on and off a bus stuck in traffic.

Oswald gets out of Whaley's cab way past his Rooming house.

Oswald's leaves his rooming house zipping up a jacket, Oswald is arrested without his zipper jacket?

A jacket which Marina says is Oswald's jacket is recovered from a car park which Oswald is seen entering.

Oswald who looks like he's been running and looks like he's scared to Shoe store Manager Johnny Brewer and appears to be hiding in the shoe store lobby as Police sirens can be heard and as the sirens grew fainter, Oswald looks over his shoulder and leaves.

Oswald enters the Texas Theatre without paying.

Oswald punches the Police Officer in the Texas Theatre.

Oswald for some reason is carrying his revolver in the middle of the day in the Texas Theatre and tries to pull the trigger.

Oswald the devout Marxist holds up his fist to reporters.

Oswald refuses a lie detector test.

Oswald lies about ownership of the Murder Weapon.

Oswald lies about holding the Murder weapon in the Neely Street backyard photos and says that someone put his head on someone else's body.

Oswald leaves out Neely street as a place he rented and alters the date of the previous rental to fit.

Oswald's handwriting is on the Money Order for an amount equalling the price of the rifle plus postage.

Kliens has completed internal paperwork for a rifle(C2766) being sent to Oswald's PO Box.

Oswald receiving a 40 inch Italian Carcano and being photographed with a 40 inch Italian Carcano not long after.

Marina sees the butt of a rifle wrapped in a blanket in the Paine garage which is not there when checked on the afternoon of the assassination.

Frazier in his testimony states numerous times that he never paid attention to a long package that Oswald took to work.

The same rifle that Kliens sent to Oswald's PO box was recovered from the 6th floor of his workplace.

Howard Brennan's description in his affidavit on the day of the assassination is a close match to Oswald.

Lt. Day testifies that he removed Oswald's palm print from the Barrel of Oswald's rifle.

The FBI takes a print from the same section of Oswald's rifle and the area matches the same area that is on Day's palm print card.


Quote
The Conspiracy Theorist "community" is an embarrassment to rationality, sanity and common sense. The extreme nature of nearly all proposed theories is disturbing, to say the least, and this forum often feels like a home for the mentally ill.
I wish there was a way to discuss the troubling issues that surround this case without being lumped in with these lunatics but it is a convenient way for Nutters to avoid having to answer the countless issues that plague this case.
The great irony is that Nutters have exactly the same mentality as Tinfoilers - There is no reasoning with it. There is no evidence, no argument that can ever change it.

Nutters should be every bit as ashamed as Tinfoil dickheads for their contribution to understanding this case.

Oh I see, this is the crux of the matter, you're some sort of special investigator with unique insights, who intuitively knows way more than everyone else combined, fair enough, good luck to you!

JohnM

Online Charles Collins

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #158 on: July 01, 2024, 10:58:58 AM »
Sadly, anyone who disagrees with Dan’s opinions (most everyone) gets his emotional tirades where he tries to Pooh Pooh  on them. It is no wonder he has difficulty finding anyone who is willing to try to discuss the case with him.



« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 10:59:55 AM by Charles Collins »

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #158 on: July 01, 2024, 10:58:58 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #159 on: July 01, 2024, 03:58:35 PM »
Well, Lt.Day apparently either forgot to tell FBI agent Drain about the palm print or Drain did not hear Lt.Day say anything about it.

Drain was willing to sign  an affidavit stating he was not told about the print, while Day decided not to sign one affirming Day had informed Drain about the print.

The FBI examined the rifle and found no prints on it nor even any signs the rifle had been dusted.

The FBI did not become aware that a print had supposedly  been lifted by Day until about a week later after Oswald was dead and his body was at the morgue.

It was at that time that According to the attending mortician , 2  FBI agents visited the morgue and when they left, the mortician noticed Oswald’s hands had been covered with black ink.

There is a part of Tom Aleyas film that shows Lt. Day using a brush on the rifle but it’s uncertain if there’s actually dust on the barrel or the brush nor is Day  actually shown applying tape and lifting a print with the tape.

There is no recording of the rifle being disassembled and then Day dusting the rifle and then applying tape and then lifting and applying the tape to a card to transfer the print.

This raises suspicion because it’s similar to not recording by film or tape recorder the process of interrogating Oswald which could have easily been done also.

Its like the  inability to allow Aleya to film the paper bag that was allegedly found in the SN or at least photograph the bag in place before the SN was rearranged several times.

It’s like the inability to at least have neutral 3rd parties like an attorney and stenographer present while Oswald was being questioned by Fritz.

So yes, while I might agree with SOME  of the evidence that JohnM and Bill Brown very astutely illustrate and with SOME points of their logical construction of a time line for Oswald, I still have issues with what  appears to be a very sloppy process by DPD/FBI of attaining and documenting the evidence. The failure to record the most important interrogation of Oswald  is the most crucial point of all that basically denies due process and thus introduces reasonable doubt about the veracity of the evidence.