A Closer Look…

[Charles Collins]

Not that Allman was a clock, but... if you work back 6.5 seconds from z313 the first shot would be at z194.

In his WFAA radio interview at 1:45 pm 22Nov63, Allman said he saw JFK react to the first shot.  He said "I looked and saw the President, I thought, duck". Here is the recording (interview is in the first minute. The quoted remark begins at 1:25):

He absolutely positively does NOT attribute JFK’s reaction to the first shot. You are mistaken.

[Dan O'meara]

I would be interested in hearing from the early missed shot speculators where they think JFK turned and acknowledged Mary Woodward and her friends.  Do they really think Woodward missed hearing that first "horrible ear-shattering noise"?

They're all blanking Woodward's account of events. It's really weird.
They're blanking the testimonies of Croft, Betzner and Altgens.
And that the SS agents don't respond to a shot as early as z150.
"The First Shot" thread crushes any ridiculous notion of such an early first shot.
There is a mountain of evidence against such a notion but I have the feeling this thread is some kind of "love-in" or industrial back-patting session.
I feel like I'm intruding on something intimate.

[Dan O'meara]

Excellent work as usual Jerry. Thanks again. I agree with what you said. Also, note that the woman next to Willis (Mrs. Willis?) appears to be looking toward the TSBD instead of toward JFK. It is hard to tell for sure, but at the very beginning she appears to be still turning (snapping?) her head toward the TSBD. The gold top lady does appear to suddenly jump then raise her right hand to her mouth in shock. Well done Jerry!

Firstly, I have to agree that it is excellent work by Jerry, yet again.
But that's where the love-in ends.


Also, note that the woman next to Willis (Mrs. Willis?) appears to be looking toward the TSBD instead of toward JFK.

 
She is waving at the motorcade and is tracking it with her head through the whole clip.

The gold top lady does appear to suddenly jump then raise her right hand to her mouth in shock.

Unbelievable!
This extended clip shows exactly what I'd said it did - it is just a young woman running.
You tried to make out it was someone jumping in shock and it was nothing of the sort. Just a young lady running along with the rest of the crowd trying to get a last glimpse of the limo.
She raises her right hand to her mouth in shock??!!
Are you sure? Is she just coughing? Is she picking her nose?
Can you see the shock on her face?
Is she jumping in shock to your proposed first shot in the z130's??

[Andrew Mason]

He absolutely positively does NOT attribute JFK’s reaction to the first shot. You are mistaken.

Here is what he said:

"And right after Mr. Kennedy passed right in front of me I heard one big explosion and my immediate thought was, like I think most of the people standing around me, this is firecrackers but it's pretty poor taste. I looked and saw the President, I thought, duck. Evidently he was slumping at the time."

Now you can suggest that he meant that he saw the President duck after the second big explosion but he didn't say that.  He said what he said and he refers to the reaction of JFK after the "ONE BIG EXPLOSION".  To provide evidence that he is mistaken, you need someone to contradict his statement. For example, someone to say that they saw JFK continue to smile and wave after the first big explosion. I have not found a single witness who said that.  On the contrary, all the witnesses reported seeing what Allman reported seeing: JFK reacting to the first big explosion. The following people recalled that JFK reacted visibly to the first shot :

• T.E. Moore (24 H 534, "President KENNEDY had reached the Thornton Freeway sign, a shot was fired and Mr. MOORE observed the President slumping forward in the Presidential car.")
  
• Nellie Connally (4 H 147. "I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.")
  
• David Powers (7 H 473: "I noticed then that the President moved quite far to his left after the shot from the extreme right hand side where he had been sitting. There was a second shot and Governor Connally disappeared from sight and then there was a third shot which took off the top of the President’s head")
  
• Bobby Hargis (6 H 294):
  “….I was next to Mrs. Kennedy when I heard the first shot, and at that time the President bent over, and Governor Connally turned around. He was sitting directly in front of him, and a real shocked and surprised expression on his face.
  Mr. STERN. On Governor Connally’s?
  Mr. HARGIS. Yes; that is why I thought Governor Connally had been shot first, but it looked like the President was bending over to hear what he had to say, and I thought to myself then that Governor Connally, the Governor had been hit, and then as the President raised back up like that (indicating) the shot that killed him hit him. I don’t know whether it was the second or the third shot. Everything happened so fast.
  
• Gayle Newman (19 H 488: "President Kennedy kind of jumped like he was startled and covered his head with his hands and then raised up. After I heard the first shot, another shot sounded and Governor grabbed his chest and lay back on the seat of the car")
  
• William Newman (19 H 490 "The President jumped up in his seat, and it looked like what I thought was a firecracker had went off and I thought he had realized it.") (this was his first (22Nov63) statement and he described only 2 shots
  
• John Chism (19 H 472 “When I saw the motorcade round the corner, the President was standing and waving to the crowd. And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved at the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot, and I saw him, "The President," sit back in his seat and lean his head to his left side.”
  
• Faye Chism (19 H 471 “As the President was coming through, I heard this first shot, and the President fell to his left.”)
  
• James Altgens (7 H 520. He said his z255 shot was after first shot and before any other. It shows JFK reacting.)
  
• Abraham Zapruder (WFAA TV interview at 2:00 pm Nov. 22/63: " I heard a shot, and he slumped to the side, like this. Then I heard another shot or two, I couldn't say it was one or two)
  
• SA Clint Hill (2 H 138, Recalled only two shots. After the first: "I saw President Kennedy grab at himself and lurch forward and to the left". CE1024, 18 H 742: "I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left.").
  
• Linda Willis (7 H 498. “ Yes; I heard one. Then there was a little bit of time, and then there were two real fast bullets together. When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward, and then I couldn’t tell where the second shot went.)
  
• SA George Hickey (CE1024, 18 H 761. Perhaps 2 or 3 seconds elapsed from the time I looked to the rear and then looked at the President. He was slumped forward and to his left, and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked. At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them.”)
  
• SA Sam Kinney (CE1024, 18 H 731. “As we completed the left turn and on a short distance, there was a shot. At this time I glanced from the tail lights of the President's car that I use for gauging distances for driving. I saw the President lean toward the left and appeared to have grabbed his chest with right hand. There was a second of pause and then two more shots were heard”).
  
• SA Emory Roberts (CE1024, 18 H 734. “12:30 p.m. First of three shots fired, at which time I saw the President lean toward Mrs. Kennedy. I do not know if it was the next shot or third shot that hit the President in the head, but I saw ,,,what appeared to be a small explosion on the right side of the President's head, saw blood, at which time the President fell further to his left.”).
  
• Cecil Ault (24 H 534. Viewing from court house on Houston. Reported to have seen JFK rise up in his seat after first shot.)
  
• Harold Norman (3 H 191. “but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard the shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something,”)
  
• Malcolm Summers (Affidavit, 19 H 500 “The President's car had just come up in front of me when I heard a shot and saw the President slump down in the car and heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "Oh, no", then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I realized these were shots.”)
  

[Dan O'meara]

Pat Speer produces a list of 44 eye-witnesses who saw JFK react to the first shot:

"For those reluctant to read through the plethora of statements and testimony recounted in the pages to follow, but who are nevertheless curious as to how I can feel so sure the first shot did not miss, I hereby offer a telling taste of the statements of every witness I could find who described the activities in the limousine during or just after the first shot. While some of these witnesses believed the first shot missed, they almost all believed Kennedy responded to the shot by leaning forward or jerking to his left, actions the Zapruder film reveals occurred only after he'd been hit. My conclusion that these witnesses were thereby describing Kennedy's actions between frames 190 and 224 of the Zapruder film is further confirmed by the fact that not one of these witnesses said the President continued waving and smiling to the crowd on his right after the first shot rang out. Common sense tells us that this should have been the impression of at least a few of these witnesses should they really have heard a shot at the time proposed by most "first shot miss" proponents, around frame 160 of the Zapruder film. But common sense, alas, is often ignored in favor of something more glamorous."

I won't reproduce the list in full. It can be seen here:

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter5therorschachpuzzle

You don't have to scroll down far to the section entitled "The First Shot Miss Myth". This is proper evidence, not interpretation to suit one's needs.

[Charles Collins]

If one draws a line on a map perpendicular to the direction of Elm Street at the Z133 mark (the location of JFK at the beginning of the Zapruder film segment) Pierce Allman was standing right there on the south side of the street. Here is what Allman said on the radio later that day: "And right after Mr. Kennedy passed right in front of me I heard one big explosion…
The beginnings of the reactions of some of the bystanders as documented on the Zapruder film and highlighted in this thread happen in the Z150s. This would place JFK at about a car length or less past the Z133 mark at which Allman is standing. Now, I ask: do Allman’s words seem to indicate that JFK was a car length or less past him or do they indicate that JFK was 75 or 100 feet past him when he heard the big explosion? Also, Allman’s words never specifically tie JFK’s reaction to the first explosion. About an hour before the radio interview, Allman was on the phone in the TSBD communicating with the radio station. Here is a snip from his live telephone report: And as he went by the Texas School Book Depository headed for the triple underpass, there were three pound reverberating explosions…. Again I ask, do those words “as he wert by” (place yourself in Allman’s position on Elm Street) seem to indicate that JFK was already 75 or 100 feet past Allman when he heard the first explosion? I don’t think so. But you be the judge.

The images presented here in this thread speak for themselves. The lady who Jerry Organ first pointed out (who snapped her head around) and the lady in gold that I pointed out (who jumped and then brings her hand to her mouth), both seem to be having an instinctive reaction to the first loud explosive sound. These types of reactions happen extremely fast (before the conscious mind can even think about it). The amygdala portion deep inside the brain controls the instinctive reactions without the need for conscious thought. The reactions can be measured as to how quickly they happened and how far did she turn or jump. There are at least 13 others who have somewhat similar reactions that have been pointed out earlier in this thread. All of these reactions are the type of reactions that one might expect if a loud explosive sound had just unexpectedly happened. All all of these reactions happened at essentially the same time.
You can see them with your own eyes and believe whatever you wish about them. Or, you can try to twist the words of however many witness accounts you want to in order to try to justify believing whatever you wish. I frankly couldn’t care less.

[Jack Nessan]

Pat Speer produces a list of 44 eye-witnesses who saw JFK react to the first shot:

"For those reluctant to read through the plethora of statements and testimony recounted in the pages to follow, but who are nevertheless curious as to how I can feel so sure the first shot did not miss, I hereby offer a telling taste of the statements of every witness I could find who described the activities in the limousine during or just after the first shot. While some of these witnesses believed the first shot missed, they almost all believed Kennedy responded to the shot by leaning forward or jerking to his left, actions the Zapruder film reveals occurred only after he'd been hit. My conclusion that these witnesses were thereby describing Kennedy's actions between frames 190 and 224 of the Zapruder film is further confirmed by the fact that not one of these witnesses said the President continued waving and smiling to the crowd on his right after the first shot rang out. Common sense tells us that this should have been the impression of at least a few of these witnesses should they really have heard a shot at the time proposed by most "first shot miss" proponents, around frame 160 of the Zapruder film. But common sense, alas, is often ignored in favor of something more glamorous."

I won't reproduce the list in full. It can be seen here:

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter5therorschachpuzzle

You don't have to scroll down far to the section entitled "The First Shot Miss Myth". This is proper evidence, not interpretation to suit one's needs.

A great start but not all of them. Altgens, O'Donnell, Hesters, Slack among others. It leaves no doubt the first shot was a hit.

[Richard Smith]

The limitations of human memory and recollection make trying to piece together events down a few seconds very difficult or impossible.  More often, the temptation is to interpret witness testimony/movements selectively to fit a desired narrative.  I don't think there is sufficient evidence to pinpoint the missed shot.  That's not to say that it pointless to take a closer look at the bystanders but the quality of film and variety of different reactions, delayed reactions, or nonreaction/unrelated movements doesn't add up to much in my opinion.  Under the circumstances, I would have expected a much more noticeable reaction to shots being fired.  Particularly by those standing in front of the TSBD.  I give credence to the general rather than specific.  The vast majority of witnesses said there were three shots.  There is nothing subjective about that question and answer.   How many shots?  Three.  Certainly, not more than three.   That is supported by the number of shells found.   At the very least that eliminates the nuttier CT claims that involve an O.K. Corral type shootout.