Who Shot Dallas Police Officer J D Tippit In Oak Cliff?

[Fergus O'Brien]

William Whaley
Cab Driver
"He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what he thought about them.
They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.
At that time he had on a pair of black pants and white T-shirt, that is all he had on.

But you could have picked him out without identifying him by just listening to him because he was bawling out the policeman,
telling them it wasn't right to put him in line with these teenagers and all of that and they asked me which one and I told them.
It was him all right, the same man."




And then Mr. Whaley says this:
Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup.

I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.
....and without even going off the record...Belin does his best to remain calm, keep his head on,
but never quite confirms what it is signed, that was not typed.

Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--

what I want to know is, before you went down,
had they already put on there a statement that the man you saw was the No. 3 man in the lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.


Mr. BELIN. Did they have any statements on there before you went down to the lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. I never saw what they had in there. It was all written out by hand. The statement I saw,
I think, was this one, and that could be writing.

I might not even seen this one yet. I signed my name because they said that is what I said.

Mr. Whaley goes on to explain that he was confused. That there was a hand written statement and a typed statement.
And he does say he also signed a hand written one. - or a blank one. It is unclear.
But this question will come again with another witness to the lineups.

A Mix, not a Match - Line Ups 1 and 2
Did the "fillers" resemble the descriptions of the killer as given by the witnesses?



credit and thanks to mr capasse for his work here .

[Fergus O'Brien]

bill will you next be telling is one of your favorite lines where you say benavides identified oswald as tippits killer ?  . you tried that before at different times . you know he never identified oswald at the time of the line ups nor during his testimony in 1964.

Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time.
Then I found out that they thought this was the guy that killed the President. At the time I didn't know the President was dead or he had been shot.
I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen, and they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could. It this time I was sure, I wasn't sure that I could or not. I wasn't going to say I could identify and go down and couldn't have.
Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't.



but you did once try to claim he did identify oswald in testimony , because YOU SAID he mentioned oswald by name lol .

Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?

Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door.
The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him,
standing on the other side of the car.


 now lets read further .

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.


so benavides did not identify oswald the day tippit was killed . he never went to a line up because he said quote " they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could " .

but you did not stop there bill in the past did you ? . when the above failed you again claimed that benavides identified oswald . now we first need to mention the fact that you have said that statements made some time after the fact are unreliable , and usually you refuse to accept them . i recall you used that argument one time in relation to oswalds landlady earlene roberts . you said her statement about seeing a police car outside was only made about a week after the fact . but when it comes to witnesses who say that which you like you make an exception dont you ? . yes you accept a statement by benavides that oswald was the person who shot tippit . a statement given quite a few YEARS after the fact .

[Richard Smith]

Oswald had so much bad luck that day according to CTers.  He knocks off work after the assassination without asking permission.  He gets his gun to go to the movies.  He is the only person on planet Earth to be in TSBD at the moment shots were fired at the president who walks past the scene of the Tippit shooting (the only DPD officer to be murdered in a several year span) on his way to the movie.  What are the odds?  He looks so much like the real killer that multiple witnesses ID him as the shooter (or in pedantic CTer terms the guy holding the gun at the scene).  He decides to ditch his jacket along the route.  He pauses to do some window shopping and looks so suspicious that the salesman follows him.  He sneaks into the movies without paying for his ticket.  He decides to resist arrest and pull a gun when police approach him in the TT not waiting even for an explanation for what they want while shouting that "it's all over now."   He has the same two brands of ammo on him when searched that were used to kill Tippit.  So unlucky.  LOL

[Bill Brown]

bill will you next be telling is one of your favorite lines where you say benavides identified oswald as tippits killer ?  . you tried that before at different times . you know he never identified oswald at the time of the line ups nor during his testimony in 1964.

Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time.
Then I found out that they thought this was the guy that killed the President. At the time I didn't know the President was dead or he had been shot.
I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen, and they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could. It this time I was sure, I wasn't sure that I could or not. I wasn't going to say I could identify and go down and couldn't have.
Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't.



but you did once try to claim he did identify oswald in testimony , because YOU SAID he mentioned oswald by name lol .

Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?

Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door.
The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him,
standing on the other side of the car.


 now lets read further .

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.


so benavides did not identify oswald the day tippit was killed . he never went to a line up because he said quote " they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could " .

but you did not stop there bill in the past did you ? . when the above failed you again claimed that benavides identified oswald . now we first need to mention the fact that you have said that statements made some time after the fact are unreliable , and usually you refuse to accept them . i recall you used that argument one time in relation to oswalds landlady earlene roberts . you said her statement about seeing a police car outside was only made about a week after the fact . but when it comes to witnesses who say that which you like you make an exception dont you ? . yes you accept a statement by benavides that oswald was the person who shot tippit . a statement given quite a few YEARS after the fact .

The only thing I've ever said about Benavides is that he uses the name Oswald in his testimony.  I do not rely on him as a witness in an attempt to prove Oswald's guilt.  All over the internet, I have listed the witnesses who positively identified Oswald as the cop-killer and I never include Benavides on that list.

[Bill Brown]

Oswald had so much bad luck that day according to CTers.  He knocks off work after the assassination without asking permission.  He gets his gun to go to the movies.  He is the only person on planet Earth to be in TSBD at the moment shots were fired at the president who walks past the scene of the Tippit shooting (the only DPD officer to be murdered in a several year span) on his way to the movie.  What are the odds?  He looks so much like the real killer that multiple witnesses ID him as the shooter (or in pedantic CTer terms the guy holding the gun at the scene).  He decides to ditch his jacket along the route.  He pauses to do some window shopping and looks so suspicious that the salesman follows him.  He sneaks into the movies without paying for his ticket.  He decides to resist arrest and pull a gun when police approach him in the TT not waiting even for an explanation for what they want while shouting that "it's all over now."   He has the same two brands of ammo on him when searched that were used to kill Tippit.  So unlucky.  LOL

Oswald, poor fellow.

[Fergus O'Brien]

Oswald had so much bad luck that day according to CTers.  He knocks off work after the assassination without asking permission.  He gets his gun to go to the movies.  He is the only person on planet Earth to be in TSBD at the moment shots were fired at the president who walks past the scene of the Tippit shooting (the only DPD officer to be murdered in a several year span) on his way to the movie.  What are the odds?  He looks so much like the real killer that multiple witnesses ID him as the shooter (or in pedantic CTer terms the guy holding the gun at the scene).  He decides to ditch his jacket along the route.  He pauses to do some window shopping and looks so suspicious that the salesman follows him.  He sneaks into the movies without paying for his ticket.  He decides to resist arrest and pull a gun when police approach him in the TT not waiting even for an explanation for what they want while shouting that "it's all over now."   He has the same two brands of ammo on him when searched that were used to kill Tippit.  So unlucky.  LOL

it is often said that what our LN friends DO NOT mention is very often far more interesting than what they do decide to mention . omission can hide a multitude of LN problems . Richard here decided not to mention quite a bit .

what we have seen here in several posts is that the conduct of the police in regards the line ups is at the very best seriously questionable . they had witnesses to each line up close enough to each other while engaging in the line up procedure such that one could unintentionally influence another . they very clearly put Oswald in a line up with teen boys , one of whom was latino DARK COMPLECTED . Oswald was 24 but looked 30 plus . so he was not a teen boy . and he most certainly was neither latino nor dark complected . he was then placed in atleast one line up as can be seen in the photos provided here with men who were taller , broader , and one if my memory serves me was BLONDE . and lets not forget they were pretty well dressed , where Oswald was only allowed to wear his ripped tee shirt . even whalley said ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM . his exact quote is posted in my previous post here . and if all that did not have the desired effect well they had Oswald speak and give his name and place of work LEE OSWALD , TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY . by the time of the line ups every form of media had reported that shot or shots came from the depository and that a man had been arrested .

i dont know if they could have possibly made it much more obvious who the suspect was .

"He has the same two brands of ammo on him when searched that were used to kill Tippit"



"He sneaks into the movies without paying for his ticket.  He decides to resist arrest and pull a gun when police approach him in the TT not waiting even for an explanation for what they want while shouting that "it's all over now."  "


that he sneaked into the theater at about 1.40  is debatable given that some theater witnesses placed him in there ALREADY some 30 minutes prior . but you dont mention that . it can also be argued that postal and brewers testimony conflicts . he testified that upon his reaching the ticket kiosk that he asked postal if a man he described to her had gone in . and he testified in essence saying that she told him SHE DID NOT SEE ANYONE LIKE THAT GO IN . then she testifies and not only does she say she saw Oswald , and saw him sneak in , but that she watched him sneak along jefferson and turn right and go in to the theater . to my knowledge the commission did not try to reconcile these conflicting statements .

was not Oswald heard shouting out I AM NOT RESISTING ARREST multiple times ? . oh and let us not forget I PROTEST THIS POLICE BRUTALITY .

there was certainly a scuffle in the theater , in which Oswald certainly came off the worst . you say he resisted when the police approached him , but again you omit important information .you omit to mention that Mcdonald stated that he walked past Oswalds seated position , then returned . where upon he asked Oswald to stand , Oswald complied . he then asked him to step towards him , Oswald again complied , not only that but he had both hands up at head height . an action that signifies to the police and to those sat around the theater that he was going to comply with the police and indeed he was doing so . only when Mcdonald by his own admission reached into Oswalds waistband did Oswald react . why he reacted at that point is an important question . so the inference that the cops arrived and Oswald pulled his pistol to try and shoot a cop is well ITS MISLEADING shall we say .

"He decides to ditch his jacket along the route.  He pauses to do some window shopping and looks so suspicious that the salesman follows him."

that Oswald paused at a shop window at about 1.40pm is atleast debatable given as we saw above that some theater witnesses placed Oswald already inside the theater some 30 minutes prior .

as for the jacket well i know you know full well the problems you have with that which are well documented on this excellent forum .


"He looks so much like the real killer that multiple witnesses ID him as the shooter (or in pedantic CTer terms the guy holding the gun at the scene)"

there is no doubt witnesses picked him , however as we can see on this thread he was made to stick out like the proverbial sore thumb . but the readers here would never know that from reading your post here , WOULD THEY ?.

"He is the only person on planet Earth to be in TSBD at the moment shots were fired at the president who walks past the scene of the Tippit shooting (the only DPD officer to be murdered in a several year span) on his way to the movie"

once again that Oswald was on 10th and patton at 1.16 pm is debatable given that other witnesses you seemingly desire to ignore said that Oswald was already inside the theater at that time .

[Fergus O'Brien]

"The only thing I've ever said about Benavides is that he uses the name Oswald in his testimony.  I do not rely on him as a witness in an attempt to prove Oswald's guilt.  All over the internet, I have listed the witnesses who positively identified Oswald as the cop-killer and I never include Benavides on that list." Bill

so you have never offered a statement from Benavides (as his identification of Oswald  ) made quite a few years after the fact ? .

you were on robert harris forum . in discussion lets say with a new member who from memory was relatively new to study of this case . and you most certainly did try to use Benavides statements (his 1964 testimony in which he merely mentioned Oswald by name and in no way as an identification , and also his several years later statement not under oath that contradicted his testimony )  as an IDENTIFICATION of Oswald as tippits killer .you may not use his testimony / statements now but you certainly attempted to back then .

and the problem is not so much that you attempted it , all be it from my own point of view i would find it a bit dishonest . the problem is that your own stance (certainly then , perhaps its changed now ? ) was that you would not accept later statements made from anyone , certainly not those made years after the fact . as i said you even heavily disputed Earlene roberts statement about seeing a police car outside because she only mentioned it about a week after the fact . its the inconsistency , or hypocrisy if you will .  but i am happy to see that you dont rely on mr benavides years later contradictory statement . not because it was years later but because it was contradictory .

[Bill Brown]

"The only thing I've ever said about Benavides is that he uses the name Oswald in his testimony.  I do not rely on him as a witness in an attempt to prove Oswald's guilt.  All over the internet, I have listed the witnesses who positively identified Oswald as the cop-killer and I never include Benavides on that list." Bill

so you have never offered a statement from Benavides (as his identification of Oswald  ) made quite a few years after the fact ? .

you were on robert harris forum . in discussion lets say with a new member who from memory was relatively new to study of this case . and you most certainly did try to use Benavides statements (his 1964 testimony in which he merely mentioned Oswald by name and in no way as an identification , and also his several years later statement not under oath that contradicted his testimony )  as an IDENTIFICATION of Oswald as tippits killer .you may not use his testimony / statements now but you certainly attempted to back then .

and the problem is not so much that you attempted it , all be it from my own point of view i would find it a bit dishonest . the problem is that your own stance (certainly then , perhaps its changed now ? ) was that you would not accept later statements made from anyone , certainly not those made years after the fact . as i said you even heavily disputed Earlene roberts statement about seeing a police car outside because she only mentioned it about a week after the fact . its the inconsistency , or hypocrisy if you will .  but i am happy to see that you dont rely on mr benavides years later contradictory statement . not because it was years later but because it was contradictory .

I'm not sure how much more clear I can be.  Benavides does say the name "Oswald" when describing the shooting of Tippit.  However, I never use Benavides as a witness in favor of Oswald being the cop-killer.