Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[Charles Collins]

    Your "...wiegman film which includes some 14 additional frames at the BEGINNING of the film that the more common (Edited) copies do Not include.", sounds alot like the rumor of there being an (UNedited) Zapruder Film in which the BEGINNING shows the JFK Limo turning onto Elm ST. I do Not know when the Myers timeline "work" was done, but the Wiegman Film for decades was ballyhoo'd as being filmed "Continuously". That "continuous" Wiegman filming stuff was proven to be False. If the Myers assigned timelines are based on the Wiegman being shot "continuously", those timelines are worthless. As the saying goes, "The Wiegman Film has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese". Swearing allegiance to the "Continuous" Wiegman Film was also one of the nails that drove Gary Mack into the clutches of the Sixth Floor Museum.

Dale Myers’ film synchronization was first published in 2007, revised in 2008, and revised again in 2010.

Richard Trask tells us on page 381 of his book “Pictures of the Pain”:

In Fort Worth WBAP received the Wiegman film from the hospital, and by about 2-1/2 hours after the shooting, the rough film was out of the processor and ready for a network feed. In New York at about 4:05 Eastern Time anchorman Bill Ryan introduced: “…And now for a late report from Fort Worth-Dallas, we go to station WBAP-TV and newsman Charles Murphy.” Murphy began a voice-over as the film rolled through its 2 minute and 46 seconds sequence.

“Here now are late unedited, unscreened films of the shooting scene in Dallas. This is the scene near the Stemmons Expressway - in front - no this is in front of the City Hall in Downtown Dallas, a mile east of the shooting scene. Heavy crowds lined the downtown street to view the presidential party. As in all of the Texas stops, there were many teenagers attracted there by the First Lady and the President. This is Main Street in Dallas. Is this moving west? - This is moving west towards the fatal moment. The motorcade is traveling about 20 to 25 miles per hour. Slowly westward down Main Street in the heart of Dallas. The time about 12:20 during the noon hour. Heavy crowds from downtown offices lining the route. That looks like the School Depository Building on the right, I’m not sure. This, this is the scene of confusion. Something has happened here. The cameraman running towards the scene for the presidential car ahead of him. We caught just a blurred glance of the old School Depository Building from which the sniper fired the shot. This is the reaction from the crowd. All is confusion at the scene. Here a woman shelters herself. Now racing towards the hospital…”
Continuing to describe the scenes at the hospital, Murphy closes at the end of the film clip with, “Later films as they are developed, as they arrive here will be shown.” As the film was very jerky and atypical of on-air broadcast quality, Bill Ryan back in New York felt compelled to explain, “As Murphy pointed out to you there, that was unscreened, which meant that he saw it for the very first time, as you saw it, unedited films of what happened - some of what happened in the the motorcade. If I might explain to you that blurry and blurry and confusing scene. Obviously what happened when the shots were fired, the cameraman was riding in one of the cars behind the President, very wisely kept his camera running, even as he jumped from the car and ran towards the President’s car and then over towards the people who were shielding themselves ducking down, trying to avoid what was going on. It was the only way the cameraman could have gotten you a picture of what went on. He very wisely took no time to try and align the spring on the camera, or anything else. Just keep it rolling, get as much picture as possible, and get as close as possible to the scene of action. That is what the cameraman did, that is why it looked somewhat unorthodox in terms of what we are used to seeing, and that is why it is such a precious piece of film, because the cameraman thought.”

For the remainder of the day and into the next, this remarkable film was periodically rebroadcast cast, though in a cut-down format with some 13 seconds of Wiegman’s quick, jiggling run to the grassy knoll being cut out of the original 37-seconds-sequence at Dealey Plaza.

Trask cites a reference of: (56) Videotape of NBC coverage, 11/22/1963 (TNN 255:4)

Dale Myers cites a reference of: Wiegman Film - Courtesy of NBC News Archives

Rumor!??     I don’t think so.

[Tom Mahon]

It isn’t about any doubts. Rather, it is about keeping an open mind and potentially learning something from others’ points of view. Andrew indicated he thought Dale Myers’ work was faulty regarding the start of the Weigman film. I looked into the matter and discovered the reason for the perceived issue was that Dale Myers searched for and used the original Wiegman film which includes some 14 additional frames at the beginning of the film that the more common (edited) copies do not include. If anyone else was paying attention, they might have learned something that they didn’t know before. This is the type of thing that I think makes participating in this forum worthwhile. I have personally learned a lot and hope to continue doing so.

Fine.

Question:

Do you think Andrew's analysis is logical and supports his idea that the first shot was around Z-192?

[Royell Storing]

Dale Myers’ film synchronization was first published in 2007, revised in 2008, and revised again in 2010.

Richard Trask tells us on page 381 of his book “Pictures of the Pain”:

In Fort Worth WBAP received the Wiegman film from the hospital, and by about 2-1/2 hours after the shooting, the rough film was out of the processor and ready for a network feed. In New York at about 4:05 Eastern Time anchorman Bill Ryan introduced: “…And now for a late report from Fort Worth-Dallas, we go to station WBAP-TV and newsman Charles Murphy.” Murphy began a voice-over as the film rolled through its 2 minute and 46 seconds sequence.

“Here now are late unedited, unscreened films of the shooting scene in Dallas. This is the scene near the Stemmons Expressway - in front - no this is in front of the City Hall in Downtown Dallas, a mile east of the shooting scene. Heavy crowds lined the downtown street to view the presidential party. As in all of the Texas stops, there were many teenagers attracted there by the First Lady and the President. This is Main Street in Dallas. Is this moving west? - This is moving west towards the fatal moment. The motorcade is traveling about 20 to 25 miles per hour. Slowly westward down Main Street in the heart of Dallas. The time about 12:20 during the noon hour. Heavy crowds from downtown offices lining the route. That looks like the School Depository Building on the right, I’m not sure. This, this is the scene of confusion. Something has happened here. The cameraman running towards the scene for the presidential car ahead of him. We caught just a blurred glance of the old School Depository Building from which the sniper fired the shot. This is the reaction from the crowd. All is confusion at the scene. Here a woman shelters herself. Now racing towards the hospital…”
Continuing to describe the scenes at the hospital, Murphy closes at the end of the film clip with, “Later films as they are developed, as they arrive here will be shown.” As the film was very jerky and atypical of on-air broadcast quality, Bill Ryan back in New York felt compelled to explain, “As Murphy pointed out to you there, that was unscreened, which meant that he saw it for the very first time, as you saw it, unedited films of what happened - some of what happened in the the motorcade. If I might explain to you that blurry and blurry and confusing scene. Obviously what happened when the shots were fired, the cameraman was riding in one of the cars behind the President, very wisely kept his camera running, even as he jumped from the car and ran towards the President’s car and then over towards the people who were shielding themselves ducking down, trying to avoid what was going on. It was the only way the cameraman could have gotten you a picture of what went on. He very wisely took no time to try and align the spring on the camera, or anything else. Just keep it rolling, get as much picture as possible, and get as close as possible to the scene of action. That is what the cameraman did, that is why it looked somewhat unorthodox in terms of what we are used to seeing, and that is why it is such a precious piece of film, because the cameraman thought.”

For the remainder of the day and into the next, this remarkable film was periodically rebroadcast cast, though in a cut-down format with some 13 seconds of Wiegman’s quick, jiggling run to the grassy knoll being cut out of the original 37-seconds-sequence at Dealey Plaza.

Trask cites a reference of: (56) Videotape of NBC coverage, 11/22/1963 (TNN 255:4)

Dale Myers cites a reference of: Wiegman Film - Courtesy of NBC News Archives

Rumor!??     I don’t think so.

      "Pictures Of The Pain" dates back to 1994. Are YOU Now/Today claiming the Wiegman Film was filmed "Continuously"? It is obvious by the constant Revisions to the "film synchronizations", that there is Nothing Scientific about it. Instead, this is "best guess" work. And if a "Continuous" Wiegman Film factors into the sync conclusions, it becomes "Bad Guess" work.

[Charles Collins]

Fine.

Question:

Do you think Andrew's analysis is logical and supports his idea that the first shot was around Z-192?

I am sure that it has been well over 10-years ago that I first started telling Andrew that I disagreed with his assessment. I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinions though. I have learned some things over the years from Andrew. I expect that I will continue to do so.

[Andrew Mason]

The assumption was that the man in front of Betzner was blocking the view of JBC’ s right shoulder, so his right shoulder was left of your yellow line. But Altgens’ #5 photo on Houston shows that JBC’s right shoulder was below the line of sight due to the height of the top of the back seat.

 

All one has to do is look at the back of Mrs. JBC (in that Altgens’ 5 photo) and they can easily see that the seat backs of the jumper seats are not high enough to block the view of JBC’s shoulder.

It is not the jump seat back that blocks the shoulder. It is the top of the back of the back seat.  Nellie's shoulder is not blocked in Altgens #5 because we can see around the back seat.

Do you really think the HSCA and Thomas Canning would make such an error as you suggest? Give me a break Andrew!

Actually I do.  And so did Thomas Canning.  I corresponded with him in 2003 and made the same point about the Altgens' #5 blocking the view of JBC's right shoulder.  This was from his email response of April 11, 2003:

• "The explanation for the eclipse of Conally's shoulder by the limo body or by the back of the jump seat is quite persuasive; I am moved to suggest that my testimony could well be revised to refer to the right side of Connaly's head and not his shoulder would be appropriate."

However, he went on to insist that such a shift would not change his conclusion and suggests that the bullet from the SN would first have to have passed through JBC's body in order to strike his left thigh.  But that is a separate issue. He admitted that had he been aware of the seat back eclipsing the right shoulder he would have revised his opinion!.  The full exchange of correspondence can be viewed here.

[Charles Collins]

It is not the jump seat back that blocks the shoulder. It is the top of the back of the back seat.  Nellie's shoulder is not blocked in Altgens #5 because we can see around the back seat.
Actually I do.  And so did Thomas Canning.  I corresponded with him in 2003 and made the same point about the Altgens' #5 blocking the view of JBC's right shoulder.  This was from his email response of April 11, 2003:

• "The explanation for the eclipse of Conally's shoulder by the limo body or by the back of the jump seat is quite persuasive; I am moved to suggest that my testimony could well be revised to refer to the right side of Connaly's head and not his shoulder would be appropriate."

However, he went on to insist that such a shift would not change his conclusion and suggests that the bullet from the SN would first have to have passed through JBC's body in order to strike his left thigh.  But that is a separate issue. He admitted that had he been aware of the seat back eclipsing the right shoulder he would have revised his opinion!.  The full exchange of correspondence can be viewed here.

It is not the jump seat back that blocks the shoulder. It is the top of the back of the back seat.

Actually we can still see the top of his shoulder over the top of the back seat. I have it outlined in yellow for you in the image below.




It would be nice if you could provide an image of your model with the JFK & JBC models, in the same position as you have shown, from two additional angles.
1. Directly above similar to the plan view of the dimensioned limo plan.
2. From the same angle as the Betzner 3 photo.

Please provide these if you will. Thanks.


I am moved to suggest that my testimony could well be revised to refer to the right side of Connaly's head and not his shoulder would be appropriate.

Yes, I also that think we would be seeing the right side of JBC’s head if he were in the position that you indicate in the image from your 3D model.

[Royell Storing]

  Connally was Not hit in the "top of the shoulder". He was hit in the armpit area. As we know, the armpit is lower than the "top of the shoulder". And then there is the consideration of the Downward incline of Elm St vs the level surface of Houston St which is pictured. Apples to Oranges. This is what focusing on numbers will do to you. You miss the obvious.

[Charles Collins]

  Connally was Not hit in the "top of the shoulder". He was hit in the armpit area. As we know, the armpit is lower than the "top of the shoulder". And then there is the consideration of the Downward incline of Elm St vs the level surface of Houston St which is pictured. Apples to Oranges. This is what focusing on numbers will do to you. You miss the obvious.

The trajectory of the bullet from the sixth floor is well above the top of the back seat. So your point is moot.