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Author Topic: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.  (Read 36398 times)

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #424 on: February 13, 2025, 04:38:02 PM »
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You need to read all of what he said.  He was specifically asked for a ratio and he gave 10:5 which is 2:1.  He specifically said that he used 10 and 5 seconds to show the relative spacing not the actual seconds.  He specifically said that he did not count the seconds.

  You proffered Cabell. "That Approximately 10 seconds elapsed between the 1st and 2nd shots, with not more than 5 seconds having elapsed until the 3rd one". That's 15 seconds. The toothpaste is outta this tube.

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #424 on: February 13, 2025, 04:38:02 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #425 on: February 13, 2025, 07:00:17 PM »
  We see on the NBC Darnell Film that Camera Car #1 and #2 are at a Dead Stop when both are at the turn onto Elm St. That "CARTOON OF CARS" shows No Stop. That's a "Fractured Flicker"! It holds No Value what-so-ever.

Once again you are nothing but wrong, Royell.
Your consistency is outstanding.
Even by the Law of Averages I would have thought you'd get something right sooner or later.

Both Camera Car #1 and #2 are shown "at a Dead Stop"
I have always admired your willingness to comment on things you haven't even seen before.
Anyone unfamiliar with Tyler's staggering achievement can find it here - https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html
Do yourself a favour Royell, stop pretending you've seen it and actually watch it.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #426 on: February 13, 2025, 07:31:00 PM »
Once again you are nothing but wrong, Royell.
Your consistency is outstanding.
Even by the Law of Averages I would have thought you'd get something right sooner or later.

Both Camera Car #1 and #2 are shown "at a Dead Stop"
I have always admired your willingness to comment on things you haven't even seen before.
Anyone unfamiliar with Tyler's staggering achievement can find it here - https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html
Do yourself a favour Royell, stop pretending you've seen it and actually watch it.

   Thanks for the link. There are several of these simulations. I had Not viewed this one. There are several issues with this one. The spacing between the Lead Car and the JFK Limo is too great. The space between the JFK Limo and the Camera Cars is FAR, FAR TOO GREAT. Also, the position of the JFK Limo on this simulation when filmed by Wiegman is Wrong. I have the feeling it is working around a possible JFK Limo STOP.  Nobody has ever explained why the Camera Cars came to a DEAD STOP. There is nothing in front of the Camera Cars on this simulation. Why did they Stop? Did they Stop due to a JFK Limo Stop?  And on this simulation they are Stopped for a very extended period of time with Nothing in front of them. Do you know why those camera cars Stopped for that extended time period.

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #426 on: February 13, 2025, 07:31:00 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #427 on: February 13, 2025, 09:04:49 PM »
   Thanks for the link. There are several of these simulations. I had Not viewed this one. There are several issues with this one. The spacing between the Lead Car and the JFK Limo is too great. The space between the JFK Limo and the Camera Cars is FAR, FAR TOO GREAT. Also, the position of the JFK Limo on this simulation when filmed by Wiegman is Wrong. I have the feeling it is working around a possible JFK Limo STOP.  Nobody has ever explained why the Camera Cars came to a DEAD STOP. There is nothing in front of the Camera Cars on this simulation. Why did they Stop? Did they Stop due to a JFK Limo Stop?  And on this simulation they are Stopped for a very extended period of time with Nothing in front of them. Do you know why those camera cars Stopped for that extended time period.

There were several cameramen and photographers who jumped out of those vehicles. The drivers most likely just wanted to give them a little bit of time to do their things and get back into the vehicles (instead of just leaving them behind). Everything was confused and abnormal.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #428 on: February 13, 2025, 09:06:48 PM »
  You proffered Cabell. "That Approximately 10 seconds elapsed between the 1st and 2nd shots, with not more than 5 seconds having elapsed until the 3rd one". That's 15 seconds. The toothpaste is outta this tube.
It is not that difficult to see that Cabell was providing a 2:1 ratio. Besides the other three make it clear that it was a 2:1 ratio.

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #428 on: February 13, 2025, 09:06:48 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #429 on: February 13, 2025, 09:40:11 PM »
   Thanks for the link. There are several of these simulations. I had Not viewed this one. There are several issues with this one. The spacing between the Lead Car and the JFK Limo is too great. The space between the JFK Limo and the Camera Cars is FAR, FAR TOO GREAT. Also, the position of the JFK Limo on this simulation when filmed by Wiegman is Wrong. I have the feeling it is working around a possible JFK Limo STOP.  Nobody has ever explained why the Camera Cars came to a DEAD STOP. There is nothing in front of the Camera Cars on this simulation. Why did they Stop? Did they Stop due to a JFK Limo Stop?  And on this simulation they are Stopped for a very extended period of time with Nothing in front of them. Do you know why those camera cars Stopped for that extended time period.
I don't think the camera cars stopped for an extended period.  According to Jackson (Camera Car #3) the car stopped or "hesitated" at the corner of Houston and Elm before turning left and 3 men (Jim Underwood, Tom Dillard and a TV cameraman - Darnell) jumped out. (2 H 160 and 162).  The Couch film (from the back seat of CC#3) shows the camera cars in motion all along Elm St.

NBC reporter Robert MacNeil in the first press bus asked the driver to stop after the shots.  The bus stopped and he got out. 

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #430 on: February 13, 2025, 10:02:33 PM »
I don't think the camera cars stopped for an extended period.  According to Jackson (Camera Car #3) the car stopped or "hesitated" at the corner of Houston and Elm before turning left and 3 men (Jim Underwood, Tom Dillard and a TV cameraman - Darnell) jumped out. (2 H 160 and 162).  The Couch film (from the back seat of CC#3) shows the camera cars in motion all along Elm St.

NBC reporter Robert MacNeil in the first press bus asked the driver to stop after the shots.  The bus stopped and he got out.

   Go to You Tube and search for:  "NBC 5 Archive Collection | Assassination Aftermath In Dealey Plaza | Darnell Film" by SixthFloorMuseum. It has the opening roughly :40 seconds of the NBC Darnell Film. It opens with the Driver for Camera Car #2 standing outside of the car at the corner of Houston/Elm. Camera Car #1 is seen at a Dead Stop in front of it. Highest Definition footage of the Darnell Film I have viewed.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #431 on: February 14, 2025, 10:44:28 AM »
So, what's at the heart of this paper that has got Tommy boy so moist.
It's an 'analysis' of a handful of people in the Z-film (ignoring the hundreds of other people shown who apparently don't count)
It's supposed to be an analysis of startled reactions to the sound of a shot but, as we shall see, very few of the reactions are actually startled.
In reality, this is nothing more than projecting an interpretation on to a few people turning their heads.
But don't take my word for it.
Here is the heart of the 'study':



The tables describe the 'reactions' of certain people beginning at various z-frames. All Roselle and Scearce had to do was compare these reactions with the testimonies of these people to very quickly discover that they were simply wishing their own interpretations onto the Z-film.
For instance, Jackie Kennedy said she wasn't even aware of a first shot until John Connally started screaming like "stuck pig".  So how Roselle and Scearce can interpret her movements as being a reaction to the loud sound of a shot is truly baffling.
John Connally testified that JFK was hit by the first shot. This clearly does not happen when Roselle and Scearce propose Connally is reacting to the first shot.
Why didn't they compare their subjective interpretations of what they thought they were seeing in the Z-film to the actual testimony of the people they were focusing on??

Roy Kellerman.
According to the study, Kellerman begins to react to the first shot around z148

"Begins leaning over and looking behind/down to the right"

This is what Kellerman had to say about the first shot in his WC testimony:

"As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from buildings, and were there was a sign on the side of the road which I don't recall what it was or what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker, pop. And I turned my head to the right because whatever this noise was I was sure that it came from the right and perhaps into the rear..."

They were "away from the buildings", presumably meaning the TSBD building and there was a sign they had just passed and "you are out in the open".
The sign in question was the Thorntons Freeway sign.
The Tyler frame below shows the position of the presidential limo at z148. The Thornton sign is in the red circle.
The presidential limo in which Kellerman was riding has clearly not passed the Thornton sign. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide if it's "away from the buildings".



Does Kellerman's testimony match up with the findings of the study?
Not really.

George Hickey
According to the study, Hickey begins to react around z143/z144:

"Begins leaning over to the left looking down in the direction of the rear tire or ground"

This is what Hickey actually had to say about the first shot:

"I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything."

In the study, Roselle and Scearce believe Hickey's reaction to the first shot is to look down to the left. In reality, his reaction is completely opposite - he turns to the right rear.
In fact, there is photographic evidence of Hickey's reaction to the first shot:

In Altgens 6 we see Agents Landis, Ready and Hickey looking over their right shoulders towards the TSBD, presumably in response to the sound of gunfire:


Landis - "I heard what sounded like the report of a high-powered rifle from behind me, over my right shoulder...", "My first glance was at the President, as I was practically looking in his direction anyway...", "I immediately returned my gaze, over my right shoulder."

Ready - "I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location."

Hickey - "I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything. "

Each agent describes their immediate reactions to hearing the first shot, turning to look over their right shoulders looking towards where they felt the sound came from. This is exactly what we see in Altgens 6. However, when we take a closer look at Zapruder we see no meaningful reaction from them (Hickey looks briefly over the side of the car but then returns to his original position). The partial footage of the Z-film below focuses on the follow-up car. It runs from z133 to z207. At no point do we see any meaningful reaction from the agents mentioned above:



I can't be arsed debunking the remainder as the point has been made.
A first shot as early as Roselle and Scearce are proposing is a nonsense and it doesn't take too much effort to demonstrate that.

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Re: Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.
« Reply #431 on: February 14, 2025, 10:44:28 AM »