Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[Royell Storing]

When I switched around the views I see that I inadvertently dragged the map which moves the position of the TSBD and the car/occupants relative to the map but doesn't change the relative positions of the SN and the car or its occupants.  I have since corrected it.

As far as the Stemmons sign is concerned, the earlier view did not show the Stemmons sign.   That was the Thornton sign on the left side.

In order to get the view from Zapruder one has to zoom in from Zapruder's position.  In Sketchup, which is what I am using, the zoom function gives a different zoom perspective than the Bell & Howell camera that Zapruder was using.  Here is the layout that I am using:


I zoom in over top of the Stemmons sign to get a more detailed view of the car and two men.   Here is the same view without the zoom:

    You do realize you have the SBT happening as the JFK Limo approaches the Thornton Sign? This position would put the Limo at a point where it is just about straightened out after making the turn onto Elm St. This is close to where Croft were standing on the (S) side of Elm St. And your SBT Shot would be the 2nd shot by 1 shooter inna 3 shot scenario? At some point prior to this, the 1st shot was fired. And there needs to be the required time to work the carcano bolt action between the 1st shot and the SBT/2nd shot. So this means you Now have Shot #1 happening while the JFK Limo is still on Houston approaching the turn onto Elm St. And on top of all of that, you have Shots #1 and #2 being fired much closer together than shots #2 and #3.  Really?   

[Andrew Mason]

    You do realize you have the SBT happening as the JFK Limo approaches the Thornton Sign? This position would put the Limo at a point where it is just about straightened out after making the turn onto Elm St. This is close to where Croft were standing on the (S) side of Elm St. And your SBT Shot would be the 2nd shot by 1 shooter inna 3 shot scenario? At some point prior to this, the 1st shot was fired. And there needs to be the required time to work the carcano bolt action between the 1st shot and the SBT/2nd shot. So this means you Now have Shot #1 happening while the JFK Limo is still on Houston approaching the turn onto Elm St. And on top of all of that, you have Shots #1 and #2 being fired much closer together than shots #2 and #3.  Really?

Just to update you: I don't have the SBT happening. There is too much evidence conflicting with it.

The second shot SBT is a non-starter as there are over 20 witnesses who recalled seeing JFK react to the first shot.  Not a single witness said JFK continued to smile and wave after the first shot. 

The evidence from many independent sources puts the first shot occurring when JFK was between the lamp post and the Thornton sign (*1). At that point, JFK was quite visible from the SN:


There is consistent evidence that each shot struck at least one of the men. The first struck JFK.  The second struck JBC in the back (and JFK's hair on the right side flew up at the same time as the second shot, according to George Hickey) and a fragment struck the windshield and frame (Greer sensed a concussion indicating that something hard was struck) and another fragment went a bit higher and on to strike the curb near Tague and hit his cheek.  What the third struck is not an issue.

All I am doing with the 3D model is seeing the trajectory from the SN of a bullet through JFK's neck.  It appears that it could have caused JBC's thigh wound.  He never did notice it.  It is possible that CE399 bullet obliquely struck the thigh butt-first (as Dr. Gregory said) embedded a bit of lead in the femur and then hit something in the car causing it to bounce on JBCs clothing or, possibly, as Landis is now saying, bounced backward off the partition or bar in front of JBC and then into the back seat.

(*1) e.g.  the first shot being after z186 (Betzner) after z181 (VP car occupants) and z191 (VP Security car occupants), before z202 (Phil Willis), between z190 and z202 (Linda Willis based on alignment of JFK and Stemmons sign from her position); Mary Woodward (just after the President passed by where she was standing); witnesses along Elm St. such as Billie Clay and Georgia Hendrix (a few seconds after the president's car passed where they were standing), Gloria Calvary, Karen Westbrook and Carol Reed (the limo was almost directly in front when the first shot occurred).

[Royell Storing]

  Mason -  By not buying into the SBT, you're scenario has a timing issue. The elapsed time between when we see Connally hit and Z313 is too short vs the time it takes to work the bolt action carcano.

[Andrew Mason]

  Mason -  By not buying into the SBT, you're scenario has a timing issue. The elapsed time between when we see Connally hit and Z313 is too short vs the time it takes to work the bolt action carcano.

According to the shot pattern as well as the hair flip seen by Hickey, the second shot occurred between z271-272:


The next shot was after z312 and before the end of z313, which is a difference of 41-42 frames or 2.24 to 2.3 seconds.  The time the shooter requires is the time to reload, reaim and pull the trigger.  If the rifle is strapped to the shooter and resting on a pile of boxes and the target is moving directly away from the shooter (moving a tad left to right between z271 and z313) no reaiming would have been needed.  I think 2.3 seconds is probably doable.  The witnesses said that the shots were in rapid succession, or "'just about as fast as you could expect a man to operate a bolt action rifle" (Emmett Hudson).

[Royell Storing]

According to the shot pattern as well as the hair flip seen by Hickey, the second shot occurred between z271-272:


The next shot was after z312 and before the end of z313, which is a difference of 41-42 frames or 2.24 to 2.3 seconds.  The time the shooter requires is the time to reload, reaim and pull the trigger.  If the rifle is strapped to the shooter and resting on a pile of boxes and the target is moving directly away from the shooter (moving a tad left to right between z271 and z313) no reaiming would have been needed.  I think 2.3 seconds is probably doable.  The witnesses said that the shots were in rapid succession, or "'just about as fast as you could expect a man to operate a bolt action rifle" (Emmett Hudson).

 You're wrong on the time it takes to work/aim the bolt action carcano. As to witnesses, the vast majority claim shots #2 and #3 were very close together. You're now down to your last strike. Better choke up.

[Andrew Mason]

You're wrong on the time it takes to work/aim the bolt action carcano. As to witnesses, the vast majority claim shots #2 and #3 were very close together. You're now down to your last strike. Better choke up.

2.3 seconds is not enough time? The FBI did it.

Although witnesses said they were in rapid succession they also said that the relative spacing was about 2:1.  Besides JBC was hit in the back by it.  We can see he was hit before z280.

[Tom Mahon]

JBC was hit in the back by it.  We can see he was hit before z280.

Way before Z-280.

Like at Z-222 as indicated by his lapel flap at Z-224 and the bulging out of his jacket the frame before that.

Or do you think those things were caused by a gust of wind?

[Dan O'meara]

The study by Roselle and Scearce is pure nonsense.
The very worst metric, by a country mile, for establishing whether a shot was fired is looking at people turning their heads in a motorcade. It is utterly futile.
It's a motorcade!!
The occupants of the car are constantly turning their heads one way and another as people call out to them, as they talk among themselves, as motorcycles backfire and a thousand other reasons not related to gunfire.
To produce a study based solely on people turning their heads in a motorcade to establish when the first shot occurred is embarrassing. And that's all they do. It isn't tied in with witness statements or anything, it's just a meaningless examination of a silent film. And it wouldn't be so bad if the head turns were 'startle reactions' as they claim but not a single one of them is.

When people use the phrase "mountain of evidence" it is often used as a desperate exaggeration but in the case of when the first shot occurred there is indeed the proverbial mountain. For a truly in-depth examination of this particular topic see "The First Shot" thread.
Below is an example of the type of evidence used to establish that the first shot passed through both men at z222/z223
It's an analysis of the statements of every person in the Vice Presidential car and its follow-up car relating to when the first shot happened.

VICE PRESIDENTIAL CAR

Hurchel Jacks [Driver] -
"My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President’s car at that time. At that time I heard a shot ring out..."

Rufus Youngblood [Passenger Seat] -
"The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds
were beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of a small crowd...I heard an explosion…"
"As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was an explosive noise."
"We had straightened on Elm now and were beginning to move easily down the incline in the wake of the cars ahead. Suddenly there was an explosive noise..."

Senator Yarborough [back left] - 
“as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast..."

Lady Bird Johnson [back centre] - 
“we were rounding a curve, going down a hill and suddenly there was a sharp loud report..."
"...suddenly in that brilliant sunshine there was a sharp rifle shot. It  came, I thought, from over my right shoulder."

Lyndon Johnson [back right] - 
"After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street, I heard a sharp report."

VICE-PRESIDENTIAL FOLLOW-UP CAR

Joe Henry Rich [Driver] -
“We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street and that was when I heard the first shot."


Cliff Carter [passenger seat]  - 
"...our car had just made the left hand turn onto Elm and was right along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a noise which sounded like a firecracker."

Jerry Kivett [back right] - 
"As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 the way to the underpass, traveling between 10 and 15 miles per hour, I heard a loud noise..."

Warren Taylor [back centre] -
“Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker —the sound coming from my right rear."

Thomas (Lem) Johns [back right] - 
"We turned onto Elm Street...We were going downhill...which put the Texas Book Depository on our right, more or less...But we were going down this Elm Street, with my door open. I heard at least two shots.."

10 witnesses in 2 vehicles all corroborating each others statements. Not one or two ambiguous statements open to any kind of interpretation. Every single occupant of both cars are stating, basically, the same thing - at the time of the first shot these cars had turned off Houston Street and were travelling down Elm.
All that needs to be done now is to establish when both vehicles had completed the turn from Houston onto Elm and were travelling down the incline of Elm Street.
I've used the Motorcade Mapping program created by Mark Tyler and compared various positions of the Vice Presidential car and its follow-up car to determine when this moment occurs...when the cars line up with the collective statements of the occupants of both cars.

Z133



In the image above the Vice-Presidential car is marked 7 and the follow-up car 8. It is obvious from this image that both vehicles are still on Houston at the time of this proposed first shot and, as such, a shot around z133 (or before) is absolutely refuted by the 10 witness statements.

Z160



Again, we can clearly see that, although car 7 is well into it's turn, car 8 is still on Houston. The theory of a first shot around z160 is refuted.

Z190



It can be said that car 7 is now travelling down Elm but car 8 is still to complete the turn as specified by the occupants of this car and, as such, a shot around z190 is refuted by the witness statements.

Z223



This is the first moment the collective statements of all 10 vehicle occupants can be accurate.
It represents the moment both JFK and JBC are clearly seen to be having extreme physical reactions in the Zapruder film as they emerge from behind the Stemmons sign.
At his website, Pat Speer documents 44 witnesses who saw JFK react to the first shot - hands flying up to throat, slumping etc.
44 eyewitnesses!
This is proper evidence.
Examining the completely normal head turns of a tiny fraction of the people that can be seen in the Z-film is weak sauce indeed.