Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
Steve M. Galbraith

Author Topic: If I had planned the conspiracy ...  (Read 13967 times)

Online Tom Mahon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #288 on: Today at 01:48:33 AM »
Advertisement
It accounts for why Truly didn't see Oswald entering the vestibule even though he was racing ahead of Baker.

Which is plausible if it took Truly longer to get to the 2nd floor than he thought it had.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:49:42 AM by Tom Mahon »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #288 on: Today at 01:48:33 AM »


Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4419
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #289 on: Today at 01:51:36 AM »
;D
Good story, John.
It accounts for why Truly didn't see Oswald entering the vestibule even though he was racing ahead of Baker.
Why Oswald was still by the window when Baker came up?
A panicked split-second decision to race through the nearest door into the lunchroom.
Oswald speeding across the lunchroom floor to get 20 ft away by the time Baker enters the vestibule.
Excellent speculation and I will keep this Reply in mind if you ever have the temerity to criticise me for speculating.

What speculating? I based my scenario on the facts.

Whereas you have Oswald already in the lunchroom because Baker secretly had E.S.P. and sensed a reason to look through the vestibule door window, WOW! Give me a break!

JohnM


Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3240
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #290 on: Today at 01:15:20 PM »
What speculating? I based my scenario on the facts.

Whereas you have Oswald already in the lunchroom because Baker secretly had E.S.P. and sensed a reason to look through the vestibule door window, WOW! Give me a break!

JohnM

Fact: Baker entered the TSBD looking for a shooter
Fact: As he started making his way up the stairs he pulled his pistol in anticipation.
Fact; He was scanning each floor as he passed by. This is from his WC testimony:

"I was following Mr. Truly and every time I had a chance I would look around over the building."
"Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms..."
"I didn't notice. I was looking around over the building at the time he said, "Let's take the elevator" and I just followed him on around."

Baker was doing what he should have been doing, scanning each floor to see if there was anything out of place.
He arrives on the 2nd floor to a small area that has a door with a window in it. He takes a few steps towards the door and has a quick glance in the window where he sees Oswald at the coke machine.

Fact: This is exactly what he told Burnett when he was giving his affidavit - he looked in the lunch room and saw a man standing alone drinking a coke.

Your wild speculation, that Burnett was adding details to the affidavit that Baker wasn't saying, is genuinely laughable and a source of real embarrassment.
What isn't speculation is that Baker's version of events tallies exactly with what Oswald reportedly told his interrogators.

Fact: Oswald reportedly goes up to the 2nd floor lunch room and has just purchased a coke when officer Baker comes into the lunch room.
Fact: Oswald reported he was coming up from the first floor domino room where he was having his lunch and where he saw Junior Jarman and Hank Norman
Fact: Junior and Hank report that they did indeed enter the TSBD building around 12:25 pm and moved in such a way as to be visible from the domino room.

Fact: A few weeks after the assassination, serious questions were being raised about whether Oswald could have been the shooter, and these questions revolved around whether or not Oswald was drinking a coke when confronted by Baker:

Leo Sauvage in the Lowell Sun from December 26 1963. Already displayed near the top of
this essay “At that moment we are told officially Oswald was already in the lunchroom
with a Coca-Cola bottle in his hand. This means that, assuming he was the assassin, he had
to cross the floor from the window where the shots were fired to the opposite side of the
building in order to reach the staircase (after concealing the rifle behind some packing
boxes), run down four flights of stairs, walk to the lunch room, put a dime in the vending
machine and open the bottle. Truly and the policeman did not report that Oswald was
panting nor show other signs of having been running.”
[Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter, Kemp]


And then we have your fantasy which you've literally just made up, unless I'm mistaken. Maybe you've posted this little scenario somewhere before but I did get the distinct impression that you'd just made it up out of thin air and are now really offended that I've dared to suggest you're speculating.
1] Oswald hears footsteps coming up the steps - speculation
2] he runs to the vestibule door - speculation
3] He stays there watching Truly pass by - speculation
4] He is just about to emerge when he is surprised by the arrival of Baker - speculation
5] He turns and races into the lunchroom - speculation.

Maybe you could tell us which part of your little fantasy is NOT speculation.
Why are you so offended by my pointing out that it is an exercise in pure speculation when that is exactly what it is?
Is it because when an LNer speculates it has more value? It's 'almost' the truth? Is that what it is?
Why does Oswald wait around to watch who up comes up the stairs?
Why doesn't he simply walk through the door that leads to the corridor that takes him to the exit?
Why doesn't he hear Baker's boots thundering up the stairs?
And on and on...

What facts did you base your imaginative speculation on...that Baker said so? He also said he saw the man drinking a coke.
If he saw the man drinking a coke the man was already in the lunchroom.
If he was already in the lunchroom then Baker didn't "glimpse" him move through the vestibule window.
If he didn't "glimpse" him through the window from the top of the stairs he must have moved towards the vestibule door.
See, I can speculate just as good as you...only I know when I'm speculating. You seem to think you're reporting the facts.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #290 on: Today at 01:15:20 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #291 on: Today at 04:19:12 PM »
Glad to see JohnM speculating :)  however that scenario imo is unlikely because Baker probably would have shouted at Oswald  to stand still before Oswajd could ever go back thru the door. With gun already drawn and pointed, the meeting would taken place on the landing area, not in the lunchroom.

I think Bakers “something caught his eye” statement could be a sudden illumination  from the opening of the lunchroom door allowing a much greater quantity of light to shine thru the outer door. That flicker of light then prompted Baker to move over to the door and at that point he saw Oswald moving away towards the coke machine.

Unfortunately as Dan had pointed out Bakers got several different versions of the specifics so I guess its  never  going to be clarified unless Baker has any statements on video?

My estimate of timing for Oswald to cross about 15 ft of landing to get to the outer door ,(4 sec)  open it and it closes (2sec) and then he travels another 4 ft & opens the lunchroom door(2 sec)
= approx 10 secs from leaving the staircase.

If it’s a reasonable possibility that Oswald took
at least 75 seconds to reach the 2nd floor landing from the 6th floor SN then Truly maybe was shouting up at 75 secs as Oswald steps off the last step of stairs onto the floor landing.

Note: 75 secs for Truly to reach the rear elevator would give Adams and Styles 10 more secs needed after reaching 1st floor by 60 sec , to have crossed past the elevator shaft and go out the rear door to loading dock without being seen by Baker/Truly. A&S  might also have to gone out thru  rollup door immediately beside the staircase which allows them to travel on the other side of the wall thru the annex building before exiting another door that exits also onto loading dock.

It’s not that implausible that Oswald would run to the lunchroom especially if that had been his plan all along. He might have already pre bought a coke and placed it on the counter or table when he was there in the lunchroom at 12:15 seen by Carolyn Arnold. But it’s a pretty risky plan given he cannot be certain somebody would be on the floors or stairs and see him running down.

As much as thus might be a plausible scenario though, it’s messed up by FBI agent Hosty note stating that he had heard Oswald in the interrogation state that he (Oswald) had been out front watching the P. Parade and that Oswald had bought a coke just a few minutes before that from the lunchroom then came back down to eat lunch in Domino room. This would have been from 12:15-12;25 approx which fits with Carolyn Arnold sighting and Norman and Jarman returning via loading dock back door at about 12:25, which is when Oswald saw them.

The prayer man issue IDK. It still looks a lot like Oswald to me and Marina thought so too. I’d like believe that the latest version of the Darnell film
Is the clearest one and that the white ring around the neck is really there and not some kind of computer digital quirk but I’m no expert on those things. The stepping down one step issue has  never actually been tested by real person at the TSBD only by a computer shadowing model. It may be that it’s possible for a 135lb 5’9” man to stand with both feet on the lower step and not have himself in the sunlight.

Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #292 on: Today at 07:22:19 PM »
Yes thanks, in summarising my scenario I left out a small detail, so I will clarify my post, after Oswald heard footsteps he entered through the vestibule door and looked out through the window and saw Truly run past and up the stairs to the 3rd floor, then Oswald opened the door to proceed back down the stairs to the first floor when he was startled by Officer Baker, so retreated quickly into the lunchroom.
And obviously after seeing and being confronted by a Policeman coming up the stairs and fearing more, Oswald got his coke made the choice to proceed through the offices.

Isn't it fun to fantasize?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #292 on: Today at 07:22:19 PM »


Online Tom Mahon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #293 on: Today at 08:02:58 PM »
Isn't it fun to fantasize?

It's a plausible scenario, Iacoletti, whereas your implicit one -- that Oswald was innocent and therefore lots and lots of evil, evil CIA / FBI / Secret Service bad guys must have been involved in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, and the all-important cover up -- is so implausible that it would be laughable if only it hadn't helped "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin install "useful idiot" (or worse) Trump as our "president" in 2017 and 2025.. 
« Last Edit: Today at 08:03:55 PM by Tom Mahon »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: If I had planned the conspiracy ...
« Reply #293 on: Today at 08:02:58 PM »