Good reasons to believe there was a conspiracy at the highest level...

[Lance Payette]

Do all LN adherents accept that the SBT is absolutely essential to the LN position? Is it conceivable an early shot misfired and produced the distinctly different sound noticed by some witnesses, the shallow back wound initially observed at the autopsy, and the arm response of JFK, a second shot produced JBC's wounds, and a fragment from the head shot produced the throat wound? Is this impossible?

FWIW, here's the Knott Lab stuff: https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/ From personal experience, I think it's extremely difficult to know exactly what any given bullet is going to do, even one that passes more-or-less cleanly through a body as the SB is supposed to have done. Nevertheless, I accept that the SBT is problematical.

[Royell Storing]

Do all LN adherents accept that the SBT is absolutely essential to the LN position? Is it conceivable an early shot misfired and produced the distinctly different sound noticed by some witnesses, the shallow back wound initially observed at the autopsy, and the arm response of JFK, a second shot produced JBC's wounds, and a fragment from the head shot produced the throat wound? Is this impossible?

FWIW, here's the Knott Lab stuff: https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/ From personal experience, I think it's extremely difficult to know exactly what any given bullet is going to do, even one that passes more-or-less cleanly through a body as the SB is supposed to have done. Nevertheless, I accept that the SBT is problematical.

  "...even one that passes more-or-less CLEANLY THROUGH a body...?".  Since when does Breaking the Radius Bone qualify as "Cleanly"?  "Objection Sustained"!

[Lance Payette]

  "...even one that passes more-or-less CLEANLY THROUGH a body...?".  Since when does Breaking the Radius Bone qualify as "Cleanly"?  "Objection Sustained"!

I was referring to JFK's body. I don't believe anyone could say with certainty that there was (in the SBT) absolutely no deviation after impacting JFK's back and exiting his throat, nicking the fabric.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Do all LN adherents accept that the SBT is absolutely essential to the LN position? Is it conceivable an early shot misfired and produced the distinctly different sound noticed by some witnesses, the shallow back wound initially observed at the autopsy, and the arm response of JFK, a second shot produced JBC's wounds, and a fragment from the head shot produced the throat wound? Is this impossible?

FWIW, here's the Knott Lab stuff: https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/ From personal experience, I think it's extremely difficult to know exactly what any given bullet is going to do, even one that passes more-or-less cleanly through a body as the SB is supposed to have done. Nevertheless, I accept that the SBT is problematical.

Couple of questions:

(1) Where did this shallow wound causing bullet go? What happened to it?
(2) How did this same bullet cause the bruises to JFK's lungs/pleura/pleural cavity? If it only penetrated a few inches?
(3) If JFK is hit about 2-3 seconds before JC (presumably at circa Z-223) why did it take that long for him to react? And if the bullet only went in a few inches how could it cause that sudden elbows-flailing reaction? Yes, back to (2).

I won't ask about where in the Z film is this head fragment causing a neck wound.

Okay, that was more than a couple including the one I didn't ask.

[Royell Storing]

I was referring to JFK's body. I don't believe anyone could say with certainty that there was (in the SBT) absolutely no deviation after impacting JFK's back and exiting his throat, nicking the fabric.

   I still do No know how a bullet fired Downward from the 6th Floor can Enter the back and Exit from the throat. That does Not work. Never has.

[Lance Payette]

Couple of questions:

(1) Where did this shallow wound causing bullet go? What happened to it?
(2) How did this same bullet cause the bruises to JFK's lungs/pleura/pleural cavity? If it only penetrated a few inches?
(3) If JFK is hit about 2-3 seconds before JC (presumably at circa Z-223) why did it take that long for him to react? And if the bullet only went in a few inches how could it cause that sudden elbows-flailing reaction? Yes, back to (2).

I won't ask about where in the Z film is this head fragment causing a neck wound.

Okay, that was more than a couple including the one I didn't ask.

I thought I was the one asking the questions. I asked whether any LN proponents regarded this as an alternative to the SBT. I take it we can check the box "Does not regard it as a viable alternative" for you.

[Lance Payette]

In my estimation, Arlen Specter's single bullet theory, coupled with the rush to repair the damaged limousine and quickly exit Kennedy's body, says there was a conspiracy at the highest level...

What other factors tell the story so simply and convincingly?

You seem to be assuming there are no other equally or more plausible explanations for your three smoking guns.

1. The SBT: As I've stated, I think the SBT is problematical. And yet, umpteen panels, doctors and forensic types have concluded it is entirely possible. Others have, of course, disagreed. Any complex event has so many variables that a perfect reconstruction is impossible - the precise location and angle of the rifle, the precise speed and orientation of the bullet at initial impact, the precise orientation of the limousine, JFK and JBC, precisely what the bullet did as it traveled through and exited both bodies. The level of precision required to say the SBT is flat-out impossible seems to me flat-out impossible. So I assess the SBT in terms of all the other evidence pointing to Oswald and his rifle and chalk up the SBT to a problematic possibility (and perhaps not even essential to the LN position).

What gung-ho CTers never seem to consider is: If this was such a high-level conspiracy, how come the best the conspirators could do involved problematical things like the SBT and Magic Bullet and all the other red flags? This is the point I always make about the conspirators conveniently being geniuses half the time and idiots the other half. LBJ and Hoover and the Warren Commission and their minions couldn't have cooked the books better than this? I tend to think things like the SBT and Magic Bullet point in the opposite direction.

2. JFK's body: Is it not entirely possible that the shell-shocked Kennedy family and Admiral Burkley, who had been concealing JFK's Addison's Disease and other ailments for years, simply didn't want the body mangled by some unknown and possibly hostile Texas coroner? Is it not possible that even the Secret Service agents wanted JFK's body treated with more respect than this? On top of which, LBJ and Jackie wanted to be out of Texas now, and a Texas autopsy was going to delay that.

I see nothing sinister unless one is assuming that which is to be proven - i.e., that it was sinister.

3. Ditto with the limousine: The cleaning by Secret Service agents at Parkland was, I will grant, unfortunate but understandable. The car itself was impounded in evidence for weeks and the windshield that CTers love to speculate about was removed and provided to the Warren Commission. A six-member committee with representatives from the Secret Service, Army Materials Research Center, manufacturer Hess & Eisenhardt and Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company developed a plan to improve the vehicle for future use, and the plan was approved by the White House on 12-12-63.

Again, I just don't see anything sinister unless one is assuming something sinister.

[Royell Storing]

You seem to be assuming there are no other equally or more plausible explanations for your three smoking guns.

1. The SBT: As I've stated, I think the SBT is problematical. And yet, umpteen panels, doctors and forensic types have concluded it is entirely possible. Others have, of course, disagreed. Any complex event has so many variables that a perfect reconstruction is impossible - the precise location and angle of the rifle, the precise speed and orientation of the bullet at initial impact, the precise orientation of the limousine, JFK and JBC, precisely what the bullet did as it traveled through and exited both bodies. The level of precision required to say the SBT is flat-out impossible seems to me flat-out impossible. So I assess the SBT in terms of all the other evidence pointing to Oswald and his rifle and chalk up the SBT to a problematic possibility (and perhaps not even essential to the LN position).

What gung-ho CTers never seem to consider is: If this was such a high-level conspiracy, how come the best the conspirators could do involved problematical things like the SBT and Magic Bullet and all the other red flags? This is the point I always make about the conspirators conveniently being geniuses half the time and idiots the other half. LBJ and Hoover and the Warren Commission and their minions couldn't have cooked the books better than this? I tend to think things like the SBT and Magic Bullet point in the opposite direction.

2. JFK's body: Is it not entirely possible that the shell-shocked Kennedy family and Admiral Burkley, who had been concealing JFK's Addison's Disease and other ailments for years, simply didn't want the body mangled by some unknown and possibly hostile Texas coroner? Is it not possible that even the Secret Service agents wanted JFK's body treated with more respect than this? On top of which, LBJ and Jackie wanted to be out of Texas now, and a Texas autopsy was going to delay that.

I see nothing sinister unless one is assuming that which is to be proven - i.e., that it was sinister.

3. Ditto with the limousine: The cleaning by Secret Service agents at Parkland was, I will grant, unfortunate but understandable. The car itself was impounded in evidence for weeks and the windshield that CTers love to speculate about was removed and provided to the Warren Commission. A six-member committee with representatives from the Secret Service, Army Materials Research Center, manufacturer Hess & Eisenhardt and Pittsburgh Plate Glass Company developed a plan to improve the vehicle for future use, and the plan was approved by the White House on 12-12-63.

Again, I just don't see anything sinister unless one is assuming something sinister.

   The Body? THE LAW is the law. The SS Stole the JFK Body.  "Surgery to the head area" is the result of this Stolen Body.