Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence  (Read 1992 times)

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4419
On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« on: February 14, 2025, 06:07:20 AM »
Advertisement
As we all know Oswald never had a trial but presented here from 1986 is the closest Oswald ever had to a fair trial in front of an impartial jury, actual witnesses are grilled by Bugliosi and Spence who each spent a lot of time researching their respective cases.


And as an added bonus here is Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence.


JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« on: February 14, 2025, 06:07:20 AM »


Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2025, 10:01:19 PM »
Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
The members of the cult of the WC often like to point to their prophet Bugliosi and his "53 pieces of evidence" supposedly pointing to Lee Oswald's guilt in the assassination of John Kennedy.  If you examine the list, you'll find that 46 of them are not evidence at all, they are lawyer rhetoric and speculative confirmation bias.  4 items point to a particular weapon, not a person.  8 items are questionable or tainted in some way.  Some items fall into more than one category.
Key:
NE - not evidence with regard to JFK's murder
PW - points to a weapon, not a shooter
TQ - tainted or questionable
1. Oswald went to Irving with Frazier on a Thursday - NE
2. Oswald told Frazier he was going to Irving to pick up some curtain rods - NE
3. Oswald told Frazier he wouldn't be going home with him on Friday - NE
4. Oswald was not chatty about Kennedy's upcoming Dallas visit on Thursday evening - NE
5. Oswald left behind his wedding ring and $170 - NE
6. Oswald placed a long, bulky package on the rear seat of Frazier's car - NE
7. Frazier said it was the first time Oswald did not bring his lunch - NE
8. Oswald walked ahead of Frazier to the building from the parking area - NE
9. Oswald did not read the newspaper in the domino room that morning - NE
10. Oswald asked Jarman why people were gathering outside and then which way the president was coming - NE
11. Howard Brennan told the FBI on December 18 that he was "sure" that Oswald was the man he had seen in the window, after initially failing to make a positive identification - TQ
12. We know that Kennedy’s assassin was at the subject sixth-floor window - NE (not even true)
13. Oswald slipped up and placed himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination - (this isn't even true)
    Givens (over 4 months later) placed Oswald on the 6th floor at 11:55 - NE
    Oswald (supposedly) preferred Dr Pepper to Coke - NE
14. Why would Oswald go up to get a Coke after hearing all the commotion? - NE
15. Oswald was apparently uninterested in watching the motorcade outside - NE
16. Oswald left work within minutes of the shooting - NE
17. Oswald walked east and got on a bus heading back toward the TSBD - NE
18. Oswald got off the bus after a few blocks - NE
19. Oswald wasn't chatty with the cab driver - NE
20. Oswald had the cab driver drop him off a few blocks past his rooming house - NE
21. Roberts said Oswald seemed to be in a hurry - NE
22. Oswald allegedly picked up his revolver at the rooming house - NE
23. Oswald allegedly changed some of his clothing at the rooming house - NE
24. Oswald was allegedly chosen by Markham (in the unfair lineup) as the one who killed Tippit - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
25. Oswald looked funny to Brewer - NE
26. Oswald allegedly “ducked in” to the theater without buying a ticket - NE
27. According to McDonald, Oswald said "it's all over now" - NE
28. Oswald allegedly punched McDonald and reached for a gun in his waistband - NE
29. Oswald didn't sufficiently cooperate with police after arrest - NE
30. Oswald showed reporters his handcuffed hands and his fist was clenched - NE
31. Oswald supposedly refused to take a lie detector test - NE
32. Marina thought his eyes looked guilty - NE
33. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Klein's order coupon - TQ
34. The 2 large fragments supposedly found in the limo and CE399 were fired by C2766 - PW, TQ
35. The shells supposedly found by the window were fired by C2766 - PW
36. Two of Oswald's prints were found on a wrapper that was supposedly found by the window - NE
37. Oswald's prints were found on boxes near the window - NE
38. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Seaport Traders coupon for the CE143 revolver - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
39. 1 of 8 firearms experts thought one Tippit bullet was fired from CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
40. Cartridge cases supposedly found near 10th and Patton were matched to CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
41. Paraffin test on Oswald’s hands indicated the presence of nitrates - TQ
42. Oswald supposedly left his blue jacket in the TSBD - NE
43. Police supposedly found a light-colored jacket in a Texaco parking lot - NE
44. A clipboard attributed to Oswald with unfilled orders was supposedly found on the 6th floor a week later - NE
45. Oswald allegedly denied purchasing the Carcano rifle - NE
46. Oswald allegedly questioned the authenticity of a backyard photograph - NE
47. Oswald allegedly said he had never seen the photograph before, but handwriting analysts said it was his writing on the DeMohrenschildt print that turned up 4 years later - NE
48. Oswald allegedly denied ever living at the Neely apartment - NE
49. Oswald allegedly denied telling Frazier he was getting curtain rods - NE
50. Oswald allegedly denied putting a long package on the backseat of Frazier's car - NE
51. Oswald allegedly told Fritz that the only package he brought to work contained his lunch - NE
52. Oswald (by Fritz's account) allegedly said he had lunch with Jarman and another employee, but Jarman said he did not have lunch with Oswald - NE
53. Oswald allegedly said he bought his handgun in Fort Worth - NE

Offline John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4419
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2025, 10:17:02 PM »
Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
The members of the cult of the WC often like to point to their prophet Bugliosi and his "53 pieces of evidence" supposedly pointing to Lee Oswald's guilt in the assassination of John Kennedy.  If you examine the list, you'll find that 46 of them are not evidence at all, they are lawyer rhetoric and speculative confirmation bias.  4 items point to a particular weapon, not a person.  8 items are questionable or tainted in some way.  Some items fall into more than one category.
Key:
NE - not evidence with regard to JFK's murder
PW - points to a weapon, not a shooter
TQ - tainted or questionable
1. Oswald went to Irving with Frazier on a Thursday - NE
2. Oswald told Frazier he was going to Irving to pick up some curtain rods - NE
3. Oswald told Frazier he wouldn't be going home with him on Friday - NE
4. Oswald was not chatty about Kennedy's upcoming Dallas visit on Thursday evening - NE
5. Oswald left behind his wedding ring and $170 - NE
6. Oswald placed a long, bulky package on the rear seat of Frazier's car - NE
7. Frazier said it was the first time Oswald did not bring his lunch - NE
8. Oswald walked ahead of Frazier to the building from the parking area - NE
9. Oswald did not read the newspaper in the domino room that morning - NE
10. Oswald asked Jarman why people were gathering outside and then which way the president was coming - NE
11. Howard Brennan told the FBI on December 18 that he was "sure" that Oswald was the man he had seen in the window, after initially failing to make a positive identification - TQ
12. We know that Kennedy’s assassin was at the subject sixth-floor window - NE (not even true)
13. Oswald slipped up and placed himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination - (this isn't even true)
    Givens (over 4 months later) placed Oswald on the 6th floor at 11:55 - NE
    Oswald (supposedly) preferred Dr Pepper to Coke - NE
14. Why would Oswald go up to get a Coke after hearing all the commotion? - NE
15. Oswald was apparently uninterested in watching the motorcade outside - NE
16. Oswald left work within minutes of the shooting - NE
17. Oswald walked east and got on a bus heading back toward the TSBD - NE
18. Oswald got off the bus after a few blocks - NE
19. Oswald wasn't chatty with the cab driver - NE
20. Oswald had the cab driver drop him off a few blocks past his rooming house - NE
21. Roberts said Oswald seemed to be in a hurry - NE
22. Oswald allegedly picked up his revolver at the rooming house - NE
23. Oswald allegedly changed some of his clothing at the rooming house - NE
24. Oswald was allegedly chosen by Markham (in the unfair lineup) as the one who killed Tippit - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
25. Oswald looked funny to Brewer - NE
26. Oswald allegedly “ducked in” to the theater without buying a ticket - NE
27. According to McDonald, Oswald said "it's all over now" - NE
28. Oswald allegedly punched McDonald and reached for a gun in his waistband - NE
29. Oswald didn't sufficiently cooperate with police after arrest - NE
30. Oswald showed reporters his handcuffed hands and his fist was clenched - NE
31. Oswald supposedly refused to take a lie detector test - NE
32. Marina thought his eyes looked guilty - NE
33. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Klein's order coupon - TQ
34. The 2 large fragments supposedly found in the limo and CE399 were fired by C2766 - PW, TQ
35. The shells supposedly found by the window were fired by C2766 - PW
36. Two of Oswald's prints were found on a wrapper that was supposedly found by the window - NE
37. Oswald's prints were found on boxes near the window - NE
38. Oswald's handwriting was supposedly found on a Seaport Traders coupon for the CE143 revolver - NE as far as JFK goes, TQ
39. 1 of 8 firearms experts thought one Tippit bullet was fired from CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
40. Cartridge cases supposedly found near 10th and Patton were matched to CE143 - TQ, PW, NE for JFK
41. Paraffin test on Oswald’s hands indicated the presence of nitrates - TQ
42. Oswald supposedly left his blue jacket in the TSBD - NE
43. Police supposedly found a light-colored jacket in a Texaco parking lot - NE
44. A clipboard attributed to Oswald with unfilled orders was supposedly found on the 6th floor a week later - NE
45. Oswald allegedly denied purchasing the Carcano rifle - NE
46. Oswald allegedly questioned the authenticity of a backyard photograph - NE
47. Oswald allegedly said he had never seen the photograph before, but handwriting analysts said it was his writing on the DeMohrenschildt print that turned up 4 years later - NE
48. Oswald allegedly denied ever living at the Neely apartment - NE
49. Oswald allegedly denied telling Frazier he was getting curtain rods - NE
50. Oswald allegedly denied putting a long package on the backseat of Frazier's car - NE
51. Oswald allegedly told Fritz that the only package he brought to work contained his lunch - NE
52. Oswald (by Fritz's account) allegedly said he had lunch with Jarman and another employee, but Jarman said he did not have lunch with Oswald - NE
53. Oswald allegedly said he bought his handgun in Fort Worth - NE

Yawn, here we go again.
Vincent Bugliosi successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials which included 21 murder convictions, just remind the Forum how many trials you've been successful at and then tell us where you received your Law Degree?

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2025, 10:17:02 PM »


Offline Lance Payette

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2025, 10:41:18 PM »
Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
The members of the cult of the WC often like to point to their prophet Bugliosi and his "53 pieces of evidence" supposedly pointing to Lee Oswald's guilt in the assassination of John Kennedy.  If you examine the list, you'll find that 46 of them are not evidence at all, they are lawyer rhetoric and speculative confirmation bias.  4 items point to a particular weapon, not a person.  8 items are questionable or tainted in some way.  Some items fall into more than one category.
Key:
NE - not evidence with regard to JFK's murder
PW - points to a weapon, not a shooter
TQ - tainted or questionable
1. Oswald went to Irving with Frazier on a Thursday - NE
Your concept of evidence is flawed. The threshold question is relevancy. Under Rule 401 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, for example, "Evidence is relevant if: (a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and (b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action."

Every item you label as NE, PW and TQ would be deemed relevant evidence.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 10:42:36 PM by Lance Payette »

Offline Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7605
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2025, 10:50:14 PM »
Your concept of evidence is flawed. The threshold question is relevancy. Under Rule 401 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, for example, "Evidence is relevant if: (a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and (b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action."

Every item you label as NE, PW and TQ would be deemed relevant evidence.

Every item you label as NE, PW and TQ would be deemed relevant evidence.

Evidence of what, exactly?

A circumstantial case is a made up story where anything is used that might be detrimental for the defendant and create bias in the jury.
It's nothing more than throwing mud against the wall and hoping some of it will stick.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2025, 10:50:14 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2025, 10:55:00 PM »
Yawn, here we go again.
Vincent Bugliosi successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials which included 21 murder convictions,

Completely irrelevant as to whether these things are evidence or not.  Nice false appeal to authority though.

Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2025, 10:56:14 PM »
Your concept of evidence is flawed. The threshold question is relevancy. Under Rule 401 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, for example, "Evidence is relevant if: (a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and (b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action."

Please explain how not being chatty with a cab driver make it "more probable" that Oswald shot Kennedy.

Maybe in somebody's colorful imagination...

Online John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10997
Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2025, 10:56:58 PM »
A circumstantial case is a made up story where anything is used that might be detrimental for the defendant and create bias in the jury.
It's nothing more than throwing mud against the wall and hoping some of it will stick.

Exactly.  It's rhetoric and theater.  Nothing more.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald and Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2025, 10:56:58 PM »