Why is Ruth Paine still alive?

[Lance Payette]

In my JFKA meditations as I drift off to sleep, I like to ask simple “What’s the deal?” sort of questions.

To wit: Why is Ruth Hyde Paine still alive?

She’s 92, for God’s sake.

Despite being one of the primary monsters in any number of conspiracy theories, there she still sits. Poor Lee Bowers and umpteen others were rubbed out because they knew too much and simply could not be allowed to live, but there sits Ruth.

And doesn’t just sit, mind you. This woman has participated in mock trials and TV programs and given interviews to the point of being accused of being a bit of a publicity hound.

As she has advanced into her 70s, 80s and now 90s, no one has been concerned that she might slip up and spill the beans? I’ll be 75 in two weeks and my wife is a bit concerned about what outlandish thing I might say next, but no one worries about Ruth. As far as anyone can tell, she’s not surrounded by aged CIA handlers disguised as residents of the nursing home.

How do we fit this inconvenient fact into our conspiracy theories, my fellow CTers?

They “got to her,” some of us say. They “know she can be trusted,” some of us say.

But this is my whole point: At 92 and still going strong, how do “they” know she can be trusted? How did they know this when she was 52, 62, 72 and 82? This is a woman who, by most CT accounts, could blow the LN narrative completely out of the water.

Seriously, what’s the deal?

I personally believe there is only one solution. It does require a leap of CT Logic, but that’s OK.

Ruth is so obviously not a part of any conspiracy, so obviously just an ordinary woman thrust into history, that this itself is the proof that she’s a shadowy CIA operative who can be trusted at 92 because she was programmed by MK Ultra types at the age of 18 and has essentially been a walking CIA zombie ever since.

Yeah, that’s it. Isn't it?

[Lance Payette]

Is my explanation accepted by the CT community, or does someone have a more plausible one as to why this woman who is among the Keys to It All is still with us? As good CTers, we can't simply ignore the fact that Ruth lives while umpteen others were whacked - can we? Our conspiratorial heroes whacked Lee Bowers and Dorothy Kilgallen but let Ruth not only live but speak freely into her dotage? Highly implausible, no?

[Tom Mahon]

In my JFKA meditations as I drift off to sleep, I like to ask simple “What’s the deal?” sort of questions.

To wit: Why is Ruth Hyde Paine still alive?

She’s 92, for God’s sake.

Despite being one of the primary monsters in any number of conspiracy theories, there she still sits. Poor Lee Bowers and umpteen others were rubbed out because they knew too much and simply could not be allowed to live, but there sits Ruth.

And doesn’t just sit, mind you. This woman has participated in mock trials and TV programs and given interviews to the point of being accused of being a bit of a publicity hound.

As she has advanced into her 70s, 80s and now 90s, no one has been concerned that she might slip up and spill the beans? I’ll be 75 in two weeks and my wife is a bit concerned about what outlandish thing I might say next, but no one worries about Ruth. As far as anyone can tell, she’s not surrounded by aged CIA handlers disguised as residents of the nursing home.

How do we fit this inconvenient fact into our conspiracy theories, my fellow CTers?

They “got to her,” some of us say. They “know she can be trusted,” some of us say.

But this is my whole point: At 92 and still going strong, how do “they” know she can be trusted? How did they know this when she was 52, 62, 72 and 82? This is a woman who, by most CT accounts, could blow the LN narrative completely out of the water.

Seriously, what’s the deal?

I personally believe there is only one solution. It does require a leap of CT Logic, but that’s OK.

Ruth is so obviously not a part of any conspiracy, so obviously just an ordinary woman thrust into history, that this itself is the proof that she’s a shadowy CIA operative who can be trusted at 92 because she was programmed by MK Ultra types at the age of 18 and has essentially been a walking CIA zombie ever since.

Yeah, that’s it. Isn't it?

Unless she's a KGB agent, of course.

You do know, don't you, that true defector KGB Major Pyotr Deriabin wrote a couple days after the assassination that Marina had to be at least a low-level KGB informant to be allowed to marry Oswald and leave the country with him, and that in the early 1970s, CIA Counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty read some WW II VENONA decrypts and came to the conclusion that George DeMohrenschildt was very likely a long-term KGB "illegal"?

[John Mytton]

The whole Ruth Paine was involved or a secret agent is beyond ridiculous. Ruth was a humanitarian who took in Marina because Ruth was a kind soul.

If Ruth wanted to screw over Oswald, she was possibly the best witness to do so.

Ruth could have said Oswald hated Kennedy.
Ruth could have said Oswald kept his rifle in the garage.
Ruth could have said she saw Oswald carrying a large package to work on the 22nd.

But she said none of that!

JohnM

[Richard Smith]

Prove that she is still alive using the CTer/contrarian standard of proof.  All you have are claims, allegations, and circumstantial evidence. 

[Martin Weidmann]

The whole Ruth Paine was involved or a secret agent is beyond ridiculous. Ruth was a humanitarian who took in Marina because Ruth was a kind soul.

If Ruth wanted to screw over Oswald, she was possibly the best witness to do so.

Ruth could have said Oswald hated Kennedy.
Ruth could have said Oswald kept his rifle in the garage.
Ruth could have said she saw Oswald carrying a large package to work on the 22nd.

But she said none of that!

JohnM

Ruth could have said Oswald kept his rifle in the garage.

How could she do that, when she claimed she didn't even know there was a rifle in her garage?

Ruth could have said she saw Oswald carrying a large package to work on the 22nd.

How could she do that when she said she didn't see Oswald leave on 11/22/63?

[David Von Pein]

Ruth could have said Oswald kept his rifle in the garage.

How could she do that, when she claimed she didn't even know there was a rifle in her garage?

Ruth could have said she saw Oswald carrying a large package to work on the 22nd.

How could she do that when she said she didn't see Oswald leave on 11/22/63?

But there's nothing that would have prevented Ruth from just making up a couple of lies on Day 1 (Nov. 22) about how she did see the rifle in the garage and also seeing Oswald leaving the house on 11/22 with a long package.

And if Ruth Paine had been on a "Frame Oswald" mission throughout November of 1963 (as many CTers seem to believe), why wouldn't Ruth have wanted to pad her many alleged post-assassination lies with two more that would certainly have helped "Frame The Patsy" a good deal?

[John Mytton]

Ruth could have said Oswald kept his rifle in the garage.

How could she do that, when she claimed she didn't even know there was a rifle in her garage?

Ruth could have said she saw Oswald carrying a large package to work on the 22nd.

How could she do that when she said she didn't see Oswald leave on 11/22/63?

Exactly Martin, Ruth just told the truth, and you may not be aware of this, but there is a LOT of CT's who paint Ruth Paine in a very unfavourable light, from being the sinister reasoning behind Oswald getting the job at the TSBD, her sister worked for the CIA, Michael her husband worked for Bell Helicopter, evidence that came to light through Ruth and ETC.

Let me elaborate on some of these;

• As for Ruth getting the job at the TSBD, the only reason that Ruth rang Truly for the job was because the local ladies got together for tea at a nearby neighbour and Linnie Mae who also happened to be there had a brother who worked at the Depository which prompted the phone call, how silly is a conspiracy that relies on so many random events?

• Oswald applied for many jobs through October 1963 and could even had been successful at Padget Printing, but Oswald's past of being a troublemaker followed him like glue but just say that Oswald omitted that previous employee, what then?



• Oswald's TSBD application didn't have an easily tracible past. But this application did include a number of lies.



• Ruth's sister if I remember correctly was a research assistant with the CIA but where does that go? Did some higher up at the CIA say "hands up if anyone has a relative willing to house our Patsy"? It's just absurd and If it was me, there would be no way I would I would expose a close sibling to so much danger and a potential lifetime of scrutiny, ala Ruth.

• As for Michael working at Bell Helicopter made him compliant in this plot? Give me a break.

• Then there is the evidence that came to light after Ruth discovered it, like iirc the walker note and a letter also written by Oswald to the Russian Embassy. What was she supposed to do, burn it?

So getting back to original questions, if Ruth was coerced into being a participant, what she actually did added very little to Oswald's guilt but if she really wanted to fulfil her "mission" then her evidence could have been some of the most incriminating of them all! Muhaha!

JohnM