Trying out methods used by Dale Myers

[Charles Collins]

Andrew Mason asked how we are supposed to test Dale Myers' results from his animation. Dale explains his methods in detail. So I decided to give it the old college try. My tests are not near as precise as Dale's because I use generic character models and do not have anything nearly as accurate as Dale's model of Dealey Plaza. Please also note that the generic models do no have the ability to move the extremities or turn the heads. I tried to get the areas where the knots of the neckties would be to match as closely as I could reasonably do. Here is my first stab at this:

First I take a close up crop of the Z161 frame and match up the positions of the limo, and the two victims of the gun shots.




Then I have a "flyover" of the "camera" of the limo to give you some different perspectives of the seating positions.




Finally, here is the seating positions from the viewpoint of Croft at the Z161 point in time.




The seating positions are exactly the same throughout all of these clips. It appears to me therefore that these positions shown are very close to what they were on 11/22/63.

[Andrew Mason]

]

Finally, here is the seating positions from the viewpoint of Croft at the Z161 point in time.




The seating positions are exactly the same throughout all of these clips. It appears to me therefore that these positions shown are very close to what they were on 11/22/63.

Very well done Charles.
Accuracy depends on the model you are using for the car, particularly the relative distances between the back and front seats. Can you provide the dimensions with an overhead view?

Try matching their positions to this photo on Main St.:

[Charles Collins]

Very well done Charles.
Accuracy depends on the model you are using for the car, particularly the relative distances between the back and front seats. Can you provide the dimensions with an overhead view?

Try matching their positions to this photo on Main St.:

Thanks Andrew. I will see what I can do with your requests. First, here is an image from approximately directly overhead that shows the two figures and their positions. The limo is positioned so that it is going down the slope of Elm Street at the Z161 position. So this isn't exactly at the same angle as directly overhead, but it is reasonably close.

[Jim Hawthorn]

You have something way off there. In the 3D model, you have Kennedy's left shoulder aligned with Connally's right shoulder, parallel with the line of the limo. Clearly wrong - look at the photo.

[Charles Collins]

You have something way off there. In the 3D model, you have Kennedy's left shoulder aligned with Connally's right shoulder, parallel with the line of the limo. Clearly wrong - look at the photo.

That’s not the photo I was matching with the overhead POV. It’s still a match for the Z161 & Croft photos. Sorry if I confused you.

[John Mytton]

Andrew Mason asked how we are supposed to test Dale Myers' results from his animation. Dale explains his methods in detail. So I decided to give it the old college try. My tests are not near as precise as Dale's because I use generic character models and do not have anything nearly as accurate as Dale's model of Dealey Plaza. Please also note that the generic models do no have the ability to move the extremities or turn the heads. I tried to get the areas where the knots of the neckties would be to match as closely as I could reasonably do. Here is my first stab at this:

First I take a close up crop of the Z161 frame and match up the positions of the limo, and the two victims of the gun shots.




Then I have a "flyover" of the "camera" of the limo to give you some different perspectives of the seating positions.




Finally, here is the seating positions from the viewpoint of Croft at the Z161 point in time.




The seating positions are exactly the same throughout all of these clips. It appears to me therefore that these positions shown are very close to what they were on 11/22/63.

This is great work, congrats! And that your 3D model is also aligned with Croft only strengthens the placement of the two men, because Don Knott's reproduction iirc was matched to the Zapruder film and when matching a 3D model to a 2D image allows for depth errors but when triangulated with another significantly different angle of the same event a much more accurately placement is guaranteed. 

Btw your usage of Croft as compared to Zapruder is to be commended because where the men were positioned on Main street is in no way proof of the positions on Elm.

JohnM

[Charles Collins]

This is great work, congrats! And that your 3D model is also aligned with Croft only strengthens the placement of the two men, because Don Knott's reproduction iirc was matched to the Zapruder film and when matching a 3D model to a 2D image allows for depth errors but when triangulated with another significantly different angle of the same event a much more accurately placement is guaranteed. 

Btw your usage of Croft as compared to Zapruder is to be commended because where the men were positioned on Main street is in no way proof of the positions on Elm.

JohnM

Thanks John, that means a lot coming from you, the graphics king. Dale Myers uses the triangulation methods throughout his film synchronization. So, I have no doubt that would have approached his Elm Street animation using triangulation whenever possible.
Yes, I agree the two men apparently did not sit still very much. And JBC testified that he was turning when he was shot. All this exercise does is show how they were positioned at that point in time. There are a couple of other pairs of photos that I hope to be able to do similar exercises with soon.

[Patrick Davies]

Amazing graphics. Very accurate.
I think MB theory is plausible, but it doesn't rule out second shooter.