Buell Wesley Frazier

[John Mytton]

How is he bent over? - if the package is shorter - he holds in the manner she had seen.
How does a shorter package restrict the way he held it, if he can reach both portions
One hand near the top -  the other for support at the bottom. I seriously don't understand your point.

It is certainly is NO proof the package is longer than about 2 feet.

It is certainly is NO proof the package is longer than about 2 feet.

So Michael, you acknowledge that Oswald carried a long package to work, why didn't anyone who saw Oswald in the immediate aftermath see Oswald with the long package?
Because the package was important enough for Oswald to make a special trip to Irving to collect it, so where is it, what happened to it and why would Oswald leave it behind?

I propose a theory that explains it all, hear me out.
Oswald made a special trip to Irving on a Thursday so he could retrieve his rifle, a rifle that was missing form the Paine garage on the Friday afternoon.
Oswald wrapped the rifle in brown paper that came from the Depository so the rifle sack could be easily smuggled into his work and wouldn't be so conspicuous.
Oswald left the paper sack and the rifle on the 6th floor and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible.
See Michael, no mental gymnastics required, a straight forward assassination explains ALL the evidence and also explains ALL of Oswald's actions.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

It looks like I'm the only one dealing with the facts!

1) Oswald makes a trip to Irving for the first time ever mid-week on Thursday.
2) Just by chance?, President Kennedy is passing by Oswald's work place the very next day.
3) Oswald for the first time ever brings a long package to work, he tells Frazier it contains "curtain rods"
4) Oswald immediately upon arrival at Frazier's hides the package in the back seat of Frazier's car then goes back to wait for Frazier.
5) Oswald for the first time ever, walks ahead of Frazier increasing the gap as they walk to the Depository.
6) Oswald's rifle is found on the 6th floor.
7) A long bag is found with Oswald's prints.
8} No "curtain rods" are ever found.
9) Oswald's fresh prints are found in the sniper's nest and Oswald's fresh prints are found on the rifle rest boxes, which were moved half way across the 6th floor. And even though he does indeed work there, it's not his job to touch every box every few days.
10) Oswald for some reason known only to him, decides to leave within 3 minutes of the President being shot.
11) No one who sees Oswald thereafter says that Oswald was carrying a long brown package, odd considering that Oswald specifically made the unscheduled trip to Irving for "curtain rods".
12) "Curtain rods" were not found in Oswald's room and as a matter of fact his room didn't even need "curtain rods"
12) Oswald lies to interrogators about what was in the brown paper package.
13) Oswald lies to interrogators about where in Frazier's car he stored the package.

These Tom my good friend are just some of the facts in this case, and so far not one CT is willing to deal with these facts, why is that?

JohnM

It's amazing to see what you actually consider to be "facts".

So Michael, you acknowledge that Oswald carried a long package to work, why didn't anyone who saw Oswald in the immediate aftermath see Oswald with the long package?
Because the package was important enough for Oswald to make a special trip to Irving to collect it, so where is it, what happened to it and why would Oswald leave it behind?

I propose a theory that explains it all, hear me out.
Oswald made a special trip to Irving on a Thursday so he could retrieve his rifle, a rifle that was missing form the Paine garage on the Friday afternoon.
Oswald wrapped the rifle in brown paper that came from the Depository so the rifle sack could be easily smuggled into his work and wouldn't be so conspicuous.
Oswald left the paper sack and the rifle on the 6th floor and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible.
See Michael, no mental gymnastics required, a straight forward assassination explains ALL the evidence and also explains ALL of Oswald's actions.

JohnM

Oswald made a special trip to Irving on a Thursday so he could retrieve his rifle,

Speculation not supported by actual evidence. Marina and Ruth Paine both said he came to Irving to make up with Marina and persuade her to live together with him again.


a rifle that was missing form the Paine garage on the Friday afternoon.

More speculation! There is not a shred of evidence that there actually was a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63

Oswald wrapped the rifle in brown paper that came from the Depository so the rifle sack could be easily smuggled into his work and wouldn't be so conspicuous.

Again, pure speculation. There is no evidence that the paper bag made from TSBD materials ever left the building. Frazier denied, on Friday evening, that the TSBD bag wasn't the one he saw Oswald carry. That's first day evidence!

Oswald left the paper sack and the rifle on the 6th floor and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible.

You just can't help yourself, can you? There is no evidence that Oswald left anything on the 6th floor or that he was even there when the shots were fired. It's all speculation!

See Michael, no mental gymnastics required, a straight forward assassination explains ALL the evidence and also explains ALL of Oswald's actions.

Having a theory is fine as long as it supported by actual evidence. Your theory is nothing more than a made up fairytale.

[John Mytton]

It's amazing to see what you actually consider to be "facts".


Oswald made a special trip to Irving on a Thursday so he could retrieve his rifle,

Speculation not supported by actual evidence. Marina and Ruth Paine both said he came to Irving to make up with Marina and persuade her to live together with him again.


a rifle that was missing form the Paine garage on the Friday afternoon.

More speculation! There is not a shred of evidence that there actually was a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63

Oswald wrapped the rifle in brown paper that came from the Depository so the rifle sack could be easily smuggled into his work and wouldn't be so conspicuous.

Again, pure speculation. There is no evidence that the paper bag made from TSBD materials ever left the building. Frazier denied, on Friday evening, that the TSBD bag wasn't the one he saw Oswald carry. That's first day evidence!

Oswald left the paper sack and the rifle on the 6th floor and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible.

You just can't help yourself, can you? There is no evidence that Oswald left anything on the 6th floor or that he was even there when the shots were fired. It's all speculation!

See Michael, no mental gymnastics required, a straight forward assassination explains ALL the evidence and also explains ALL of Oswald's actions.

Having a theory is fine as long as it supported by actual evidence. Your theory is nothing more than a made up fairytale.

Speculation not supported by actual evidence. Marina and Ruth Paine both said he came to Irving to make up with Marina and persuade her to live together with him again.

Sorry old chum the evidence is that Oswald told Frazier that he was going to get "curtain rods" and he accomplished the mission by having "curtain rods" with him the very next day and since "curtain rods" were never found and/or needed then we can know for a certainty that the mission was to retrieve his rifle, you know Oswald's rifle that was found on the 6th floor!

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, we were standing like I said at the four-headed table about half as large as this, not, quite half as large, but anyway I was standing there getting the orders in and he said, "Could I ride home with you this afternoon?"
And I said, "Sure. You know, like I told you, you can go home with me any time you want to, like I say anytime you want to go see your wife that is all right with me."
So automatically I knew it wasn't Friday, I come to think it wasn't Friday and I said, "Why are you going home today?"
And he says, "I am going home to get some curtain rods." He said, "You know, put in an apartment."
He wanted to hang up some curtains and I said, "Very well." And I never thought more about it and I had some invoices in my hands for some orders and I walked on off and started filling the orders.

Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

Having a theory is fine as long as it supported by actual evidence. Your theory is nothing more than a made up fairytale.

And here we are 60+ years later and my "fairytale" has withstood the test of time and is firmly entrenched in the History Books.
Whereas the CT's have spent virtually their entire lives looking for a viable alternative and so far all we have is empty denials, poor critical thinking and endless unproven allegations. Go figure!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry old chum the evidence is that Oswald told Frazier that he was going to get "curtain rods" and he accomplished the mission by having "curtain rods" with him the very next day and since "curtain rods" were never found and/or needed then we can know for a certainty that the mission was to retrieve his rifle, you know Oswald's rifle that was found on the 6th floor!

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, we were standing like I said at the four-headed table about half as large as this, not, quite half as large, but anyway I was standing there getting the orders in and he said, "Could I ride home with you this afternoon?"
And I said, "Sure. You know, like I told you, you can go home with me any time you want to, like I say anytime you want to go see your wife that is all right with me."
So automatically I knew it wasn't Friday, I come to think it wasn't Friday and I said, "Why are you going home today?"
And he says, "I am going home to get some curtain rods." He said, "You know, put in an apartment."
He wanted to hang up some curtains and I said, "Very well." And I never thought more about it and I had some invoices in my hands for some orders and I walked on off and started filling the orders.

Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

And here we are 60+ years later and my "fairytale" has withstood the test of time and is firmly entrenched in the History Books.
Whereas the CT's have spent virtually their entire lives looking for a viable alternative and so far all we have is empty denials, poor critical thinking and endless unproven allegations. Go figure!

JohnM

Sorry old chum the evidence is that Oswald told Frazier that he was going to get "curtain rods" and he accomplished the mission by having "curtain rods" with him the very next day 

Hilarious! Oswald was going to Irving to make up with his wife and he is supposed to tell a 19 year old co-worker about his marital troubles? Really? Obviously he needed an excuse when Frazier asked him, so he told a white lie. No big deal!

One would think that his wife and the lady she's living with would know exactly why he came to Irving, but only in your alternate reality his wife and Ruth Paine are lying about that. Go figure.

Btw, what exactly was the mission Oswald was on? Do you have a shred of evidence that there was even a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63? I seriously doubt it!

and since "curtain rods" were never found and/or needed then we can know for a certainty that the mission was to retrieve his rifle,

Wow! No curtain rods being found provides you "certainty" that Oswald collected a rifle you can't even prove was there. Talk about being delusional!

you know Oswald's rifle that was found on the 6th floor!

LOL

[John Mytton]

Sorry old chum the evidence is that Oswald told Frazier that he was going to get "curtain rods" and he accomplished the mission by having "curtain rods" with him the very next day 

Hilarious! Oswald was going to Irving to make up with his wife and he is supposed to tell a 19 year old co-worker about his marital troubles? Really? Obviously he needed an excuse when Frazier asked him, so he told a white lie. No big deal!

One would think that his wife and the lady she's living with would know exactly why he came to Irving, but only in your alternate reality his wife and Ruth Paine are lying about that. Go figure.

Btw, what exactly was the mission Oswald was on? Do you have a shred of evidence that there was even a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63? I seriously doubt it!

and since "curtain rods" were never found and/or needed then we can know for a certainty that the mission was to retrieve his rifle,

Wow! No curtain rods being found provides you "certainty" that Oswald collected a rifle you can't even prove was there. Talk about being delusional!

you know Oswald's rifle that was found on the 6th floor!

LOL

That's all very nice but irrelevant, why didn't you address the Elephant in the room, why on Earth would Oswald take "curtain rods" in a long package to work and then simply leave them behind? And don't forget that his rooming house's room had curtain rods, so think hard and try to explain this massive dilemma, Good Luck!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

That's all very nice but irrelevant, why didn't you address the Elephant in the room, why on Earth would Oswald take "curtain rods" in a long package to work and then simply leave them behind? And don't forget that his rooming house's room had curtain rods, so think hard and try to explain this massive dilemma, Good Luck!

JohnM

why didn't you address the Elephant in the room

What Elephant would that be?

why on Earth would Oswald take "curtain rods" in a long package to work and then simply leave them behind?

He probably didn't. I don't know what was in the bag and neither do you. Frazier said that he carried the bag between the cup of his hand and under his armpit. That's not an estimate. It's an observation!

You can speculate all you want,  but a dismanteld MC rifle could not fit between the cup of Oswald's hand and under his armpit.

And don't forget that his rooming house's room had curtain rods, so think hard and try to explain this massive dilemma, Good Luck!

There is no dilemma. All there is, is you speculating based on the mere fact that Frazier said Oswald told him about collecting curtain rods.
 

[John Mytton]

why didn't you address the Elephant in the room

What Elephant would that be?

why on Earth would Oswald take "curtain rods" in a long package to work and then simply leave them behind?

He probably didn't. I don't know what was in the bag and neither do you. Frazier said that he carried the bag between the cup of his hand and under his armpit. That's not an estimate. It's an observation!

You can speculate all you want,  but a dismanteld MC rifle could not fit between the cup of Oswald's hand and under his armpit.

And don't forget that his rooming house's room had curtain rods, so think hard and try to explain this massive dilemma, Good Luck!

There is no dilemma. All there is, is you speculating based on the mere fact that Frazier said Oswald told him about collecting curtain rods.

...based on the mere fact that Frazier said Oswald told him about collecting curtain rods.

Sorry Martin you've got it all wrong, not only did Oswald tell Frazier that he was going to Irving to collect "curtain rods" but Oswald told Frazier very specifically that on the back seat of Frazier's car were those very same "curtain rods". So I'll ask again what happened to the curtain rods and why didn't Oswald take them with him?

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

That's all very nice but irrelevant, why didn't you address the Elephant in the room, why on Earth would Oswald take "curtain rods" in a long package to work and then simply leave them behind? And don't forget that his rooming house's room had curtain rods, so think hard and try to explain this massive dilemma, Good Luck!

JohnM

Again, in the real world, there is no dilemma. It only exists in your imagination.

What makes you think that there actually were curtain rods in that bag?

Just because Oswald used it as an excuse to explain his trip to Irving instead of telling a 19 year old co-worker about his marital problems?

Your self serving speculation is pathetic.

All this BS;

I propose a theory that explains it all, hear me out.
Oswald made a special trip to Irving on a Thursday so he could retrieve his rifle, a rifle that was missing form the Paine garage on the Friday afternoon.
Oswald wrapped the rifle in brown paper that came from the Depository so the rifle sack could be easily smuggled into his work and wouldn't be so conspicuous.
Oswald left the paper sack and the rifle on the 6th floor and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible.
See Michael, no mental gymnastics required, a straight forward assassination explains ALL the evidence and also explains ALL of Oswald's actions.

is more than likely based on a white lie Oswald told Frazier to explain why he went to Irving.

Why don't you provide actual evidence that there was indeed a rifle, belonging to Oswald, in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63?

If you do that, we may have something to talk about....... so, where is that evidence?