Buell Wesley Frazier

[Michael Capasse]

...the fact that she later colluded with Wesley to drastically shrink the package came about because of Wesley's fear....

JohnM

Ridiculous claim without any proof.

[Jack Nessan]

WHY? please tell me. - I'm talking to a brick  - I'll say it again...
A shorter package does not refute what LMR saw. I just don't know what else to say.

Frazier saw a bag from his palm to his armpit. How is that the rifle?

You are a brick. You have no idea what you post.

You wrote this “"One hand near the top -  the other for support at the bottom. I seriously don't understand your point"

You cut and pasted this:

Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.

You all by yourself completely have made the case that there is no way the bag was 27 inches. Nobody else needs to post another word. These denying posts make no sense in light of what you have posted about Linnie’s testimony. Her testimony was plain enough to understand that you made the claim the bag was held on the bottom and she stated repeatedly the bottom was nearly on the ground. There is no other explanation than LHO would have to have been bent over to accomplish that if the bag was 27 inches. For god’s sake do the math. 

It is really simple you can either believe the bag was 27 inches and LHO was walking bent over or you can believe the bag was 42 inches and LHO was walking erect. Pick one.

 

[John Mytton]

Ridiculous claim without any proof.

It is not a ridiculous claim, it's called deductive reasoning based on affidavits, FBI report, physical evidence and testimony.

1) The first day evidence is that Linnie Mae Randall said she saw a three foot long package which is much, much longer than 2 foot and impossible to get wrong.
2) The only package found was a package about 3 feet long with Oswald's prints. See how the evidence fits!
3) Frazier is interrogated and threatened with physical violence.
4) Naïve Frazier would be scared of being guilty by association.
5) Oswald tells Frazier that his package contained "curtain rods" but I suspect Frazier knew otherwise and if not from the start, definitely after Frazier heard shots and Oswald was no where to be found.
6) To try and appear innocent Frazier tells the story that the package was only two feet long, too bad the only bag found was at least 50% longer and had Oswald's prints.

Now for a another piece of the puzzle, Frazier worked with curtain rods and knew how they came packaged, so to weasel his way out of his predicament, Frazier used this memory as his BS size estimate.

Mr. BALL - Did it appear to you there was some, more than just paper he was carrying, some kind of a weight he was carrying?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, yes, sir; I say, because one reason I know that because I worked in a department store before and I had uncrated curtain rods when they come in, and I know if you have seen when they come straight from the factory you know how they can bundle them up and put them in there pretty compact, so he told me it was curtain rods so I didn't think any more about the package whatsoever.

BTW for any alternate "curtain rods" story to be true then we must locate the "curtain rods" and then we have to ascertain why Oswald didn't take the "curtain rods" when he left the Depository?
Then and only then can we rely on the obviously fictitious "curtain rods" story but until that day we have to depend on the physical evidence, testimonies, ETC, ETC...

JohnM

[Michael Capasse]

You are a brick. You have no idea what you post.

You wrote this “"One hand near the top -  the other for support at the bottom. I seriously don't understand your point"

You cut and pasted this:

Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.

You all by yourself completely have made the case that there is no way the bag was 27 inches. Nobody else needs to post another word. These denying posts make no sense in light of what you have posted about Linnie’s testimony. Her testimony was plain enough to understand that you made the claim the bag was held on the bottom and she stated repeatedly the bottom was nearly on the ground. There is no other explanation than LHO would have to have been bent over to accomplish that if the bag was 27 inches. For god’s sake do the math. 

It is really simple you can either believe the bag was 27 inches and LHO was walking bent over or you can believe the bag was 42 inches and LHO was walking erect. Pick one.

Show me where LMR said he held the bag with 2 hands.
I made an assumption based on what you said about the prints. - I wont do that again

and how does LMR prove the bag is longer? - it must be the 7th time I asked that one

[John Mytton]

Whoa ! Randle makes no mention of the left hand or holding the bottom.

Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.

Mr. BALL. Let me see. He carried it in his right hand, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.

Mr. BALL. And where was his hand gripping the middle of the package?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; the top with just a little bit sticking up. You know just like you grab something like that.

Mr. BALL. And he was grabbing it with his right hand at the top of the package and the package almost touched the ground?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

He's holding it like a grip bag with one hand - but she only saw him from the waist up. (and white t shirt?)
"He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up,..."
it also gives absolutely no indication of a package longer than what Frazier said.
The 36" estimate was added by FBI Bookout by mistake - perhaps even fed to her. She has no reason to lie.

You put far too much weight in this unreliable witness at a glance - against Frazier - who is absolutely sure - palm to armpit.
Looking at this now, NO, her description does NOT match the placement of the fingerprints. Her description makes the bag no longer than what BWF saw

  2x Lee carried an 8 lb. rifle with one hand.

He's holding it like a grip bag with one hand - but she only saw him from the waist up. (and white t shirt?)
"He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up,..."
it also gives absolutely no indication of a package longer than what Frazier said.
The 36" estimate was added by FBI Bookout by mistake - perhaps even fed to her. She has no reason to lie.

How about you quote the entire passage within context. Randle was clearly referring to the fact that she only paid attention to Oswald's upper half otherwise she wouldn't have mentioned Oswald's pants and how could she make the statement that the package almost touched the ground if she didn't have a full view? Sometimes the intellectual dishonesty to push whatever point you are trying to make literally astounds me!

Mr. BALL. How was Lee dressed that morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up, I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything, when he was going with the package. I was more interested in that. But he had on a white T-shirt and I remember some sort of brown or tan shirt and he had a gray jacket, I believe.

Anyway the view out the front of Randle was not obstructed. And from Randle's vantage point she could see everything.





JohnM

[Tom Sorensen]

John Myton is working overtime to educate you on the facts but it does not appear to be taking. If you decide to actually contribute something to the discussion instead of this nonsense that would be great.

"Facts", there you go. Always a fresh episode of The Nessan Clown Show. Carry on!

[Tom Sorensen]

It looks like I'm the only one dealing with the facts!

1) Oswald makes a trip to Irving for the first time ever mid-week on Thursday.
2) Just by chance?, President Kennedy is passing by Oswald's work place the very next day.
3) Oswald for the first time ever brings a long package to work, he tells Frazier it contains "curtain rods"
4) Oswald immediately upon arrival at Frazier's hides the package in the back seat of Frazier's car then goes back to wait for Frazier.
5) Oswald for the first time ever, walks ahead of Frazier increasing the gap as they walk to the Depository.
6) Oswald's rifle is found on the 6th floor.
7) A long bag is found with Oswald's prints.
8} No "curtain rods" are ever found.
9) Oswald's fresh prints are found in the sniper's nest and Oswald's fresh prints are found on the rifle rest boxes, which were moved half way across the 6th floor. And even though he does indeed work there, it's not his job to touch every box every few days.
10) Oswald for some reason known only to him, decides to leave within 3 minutes of the President being shot.
11) No one who sees Oswald thereafter says that Oswald was carrying a long brown package, odd considering that Oswald specifically made the unscheduled trip to Irving for "curtain rods".
12) "Curtain rods" were not found in Oswald's room and as a matter of fact his room didn't even need "curtain rods"
12) Oswald lies to interrogators about what was in the brown paper package.
13) Oswald lies to interrogators about where in Frazier's car he stored the package.

These Tom my good friend are just some of the facts in this case, and so far not one CT is willing to deal with these facts, why is that?

JohnM

Dear John, I'm not participating in your copy-paste show, so thanks to Martin for taking care of your "facts." Here comes an actual fact: The Warren Commission was so scared of Frazier's curtain rod story that they had to stage a curtain rod discovery show at the Paine residence, in the garage, starring Ruth Paine and their boy John Howlett. Unfortunately, Howlett had handed them in for printing BEFORE they were "found" in the garage, as seen on a CSSS form signed by both Howlett and DP Carl Day. Bummer!

[Martin Weidmann]

C'mon Martin, this is weak sauce, it's well established that Oswald was having marital problems because for a start he wasn't living with Marina, DUH!
And their latest tiff happened on the previous Monday, so Oswald had Tuesday and Wednesday to rectify their marriage but instead of waiting till the weekend where he would have 2 full days to fully explain himself, he chose Thursday, the precise night before the President arrived. Some coincidence?

But anyway, you keep running from the fact that Oswald took a large package to work and instead of answering my simple questions, you keep deflecting because let's face it, you're stumped!

JohnM

Hilarious!

So you can't provide a shred of evidence that shows there actually was a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage on 11/21/63? Got it!