Prayer Woman

[Thomas Graves]

At what point does this sort of thing become more wishful thinking and confirmation bias than discerning?

John,

I suggest that you take a close look at the Z-film gif in "The Real Gloria Calvery" thread that I've just now bumped for you (and others) so that you can view an enlarged portion of the Z-film at about Z-165 and witness for yourself the actually not-so-bold horizontal stripes in Calvery's skirt, then go back to your Darnell frame with the red oval, above, and enlarge the heck out of it so that you can (only just, and right above the curving red line) make out one of those stripes, yourself.

-- Tommy 

[John Iacoletti]

Which one are you calling Calvery in the Z film?  And how do you know that?

[Duncan MacRae]

Helpful Gifs - Some added to Tommy & Brian's recent relevant posts.

[Michael Walton]

Helpful Gifs - Some added to Tommy & Brian's recent relevant posts.

This thread is never-ending so it's easy to forget what the various theories are (other than the obvious one of it's supposed to be Oswald up in the vestibule). The last I can remember is the woman on the steps is Calvery talking to Bill Lovelady. It certainly looks like Lovelady is still up there (the man facing the Calvery figure). And based on the color image from the Z film, it certainly looks like Calvery down there on Elm as well as being up on the steps crying to Lovelady.

But one point of clarification - I also recall that someone said that the two male figures who are seen walking in the direction of the knoll area are also Lovelady and Shelley(?)

If you watch the above clips, then one of the two men walking toward the knoll cannot be Lovelady. The reason is because you can see the cop running toward the entrance of the TSBD as the two men are walking. Then, mere seconds later, in the other clip of Calvery and Lovelady, you can also see the cop.

Lovelady obviously cannot be in two places at once so I've always thought that Lovelady is not one of the two men walking away; instead, I've always thought it was Lovelady still up on the steps where Calvery is seen talking to him.

[Thomas Graves]

This thread is never-ending so it's easy to forget what the various theories are (other than the obvious one of it's supposed to be Oswald up in the vestibule). The last I can remember is the woman on the steps is Calvery talking to Bill Lovelady. It certainly looks like Lovelady is still up there (the man facing the Calvery figure). And based on the color image from the Z film, it certainly looks like Calvery down there on Elm as well as being up on the steps crying to Lovelady.

But one point of clarification - I also recall that someone said that the two male figures who are seen walking in the direction of the knoll area are also Lovelady and Shelley(?)

If you watch the above clips, then one of the two men walking toward the knoll cannot be Lovelady. The reason is because you can see the cop running toward the entrance of the TSBD as the two men are walking. Then, mere seconds later, in the other clip of Calvery and Lovelady, you can also see the cop.

Lovelady obviously cannot be in two places at once so I've always thought that Lovelady is not one of the two men walking away; instead, I've always thought it was Lovelady still up on the steps where Calvery is seen talking to him.

Michael,

Which clip are you referring to?

In the very top one, I believe that the person who is running from left to right isn't the policeman (Marion Baker), but "Running Woman".

-- Tommy 

EDIT:  Nope, I'm wrong.

"Running Woman" was wearing a light-colored blouse or sweater.

My bad.

Nice catch!

Not sure I understand your logic about Lovelady, though.

How do you know that the guy on the steps talking with Calvery isn't someone who just happens to look like Lovelady?

[Michael Walton]

Michael,

Which clip are you referring to?

In the very top one, I believe that the person who is running from left to right isn't the policeman (Marion Baker), but "Running Woman".

-- Tommy 

EDIT:  Nope, I'm wrong.

"Running Woman" was wearing a light-colored blouse or sweater.

My bad.

Nice catch!

Not sure I understand your logic about Lovelady, though.

How do you know that the guy on the steps talking with Calvery isn't someone who just happens to look like Lovelady?

I'll admit that one of the two guys walking toward the knoll does look vaguely like Lovelady.  But the opposite is also true - we all know it's Lovelady who was up there standing in the bright sun as he leaned over the rail and his photo was snapped by Altgens (during the shooting sequence).

I'm thinking, too, that despite what people say in their testimony, memory can be faulty. If he said he went down to the knoll, he probably did - he has no real reason to lie about that. But I don't think he rushed down there with Shelly so soon after the shots were fired. Therefore, because that figure above looks like him (the one with Calvery in it), with his shiny bald pate overexposed in the sun, that's why I'm thinking it's him.

Also, earlier in one of those clips (I'm sure you can find it somewhere) there is a frame or two of him in his "leaning over the rail" position and that figure as well as the "talking to Calvery" figure look very similar.

So the whole point of this is - he's up there, the car drives by, he leans over during the shooting sequence, he stays up there, the commotion gets started, he's still up there, Calvery comes running up crying and he's there and that's where he and Calvery converge, the cop runs by, *then* he and Shelly go on down.  Again, if he says something differently in his testimony, I think he was probably just wrong in remembering how it happened.  Nothing devious - just misremembering.

But of course as we all know in this case, *someone* will say that he wasn't misremembering but lying to cover up some unknown deviousness on his part - LOL.

[Michael Walton]

Here's his testimony.  The first portion makes it sound like he saw Calvery up on the steps. At least it does to me because it talks about him being at the top step and then it segues right into Calvery.

Then later he says he looked back and saw the cop running into the building, meaning it could be him down there with Shelly. Amazingly, if he said he looked back and saw the cop, you don't see him turn to look but it could have happpened after he was out of the film scene.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm

Here's that other image during the shooting.  You can tell it's during the shooting because the black guy leaning on the wall with his hands in his pocket is still there.

[Michael Walton]

For God sake Brian, give it a rest. Nothing's been proven that that is or is not Oswald. You love to argue one way or another - if someone says it's not Oswald, then you go into Attack A mode. If someone says it is Oswald but their "evidence" differs from yours - in other words if they don't agree with you that the Chris "67% of the frames have been removed" Davidson blob blow up is not Stanton, then you go into Attack B mode.

I know what you basic problem is - you're still - to this day - just xxxxxx because you got kicked out of the (un)Ed forum (also known as the "believe my bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns here and buy my book too" forum).

Lighten up, will you? We know the assassination was a conspiracy.

And you know what else?  You're a terrible - one of the all-time worst - crackpot when it comes to this case.