Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Dan O'meara]

I believe this confirms the timeline Martin puts forward but I don't know what the big deal is as it has zero bearing on Oswald's guilt as far as the Tippit murder is concerned.

Agreed to some extent, but point well taken. Why fight the obvious time line and defend the DPD radio recordings/transcripts if one is not preoccupied with the possibe consequences?

Consequences ?

[Martin Weidmann]

Consequences ?

If Tippit was killed at around 1:09 and Oswald was still at the rooming house at 1:03 there wouldn't have been enough time for him to get to 10th street on foot.

[Dan O'meara]

"...Oswald's guilt..." -- LOL

You seem to have little confidence in Mr. Wright:

I saw that man drive off in a grey coupe just as clear as I was born. I know what I saw The can say all they want about a fellow running away, but I can’t accept this because I saw a fellow get in a car and drive away.

You're not wrong.

What is the fantastical explanation for Markham, Benevides and Scoggins not seeing this.

[Dan O'meara]

If Tippit was killed at around 1:09 and Oswald was still at the rooming house at 1:03 there wouldn't have been enough time for him to get to 10th street on foot.

Right, I thought you were talking about personal consequences [my bad]

Agreed that it is unrealistic for Oswald to run 0.9 miles in 6 minutes to get there but there is no evidence, literally zero, that he left the rooming house at 1:03 PM
The only thing I can think you're basing that time on is the testimony of Earlene Roberts in which she says:

"Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after..."

This would seem to suggest a time around 1:03 PM taken in tandem with her observation that Oswald was in his room for "3 or 4 minutes".
However, when she qualifies why she believes it is "a little later" than 1 o'clock it is revealed she only has a vague grasp of what time it is:

" Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say..."

She believes it's 1:00 PM because it's after JFK was shot!
Not because she saw it on a watch or a clock or heard it on the TV.
She actually says "what time I wouldn't want to say".
She is clearly guessing at the time and using the shooting of JFK to gauge this estimation.
To stick a specific time on this is unrealistic (IMO)
The best we can hope to do is give it a realistic range of times for when Oswald leaves the house.
It's not a question of undermining the reliability of Roberts' testimony, it's just accepting that she reveals her uncertainty regarding the time in what she says. Her uncertainty regarding his shirt is also revealed.
Conversely, she is absolutely certain about a couple of aspects of this interaction:

1) That Oswald was in a big hurry
2) That he was wearing a zip-up jacket when he left the house

As far as I'm concerned, a reasonable interpretation of Roberts' testimony reveals these two things.
A reasonable interpretation of her testimony does not allow to put a specific time on when Oswald left the rooming house.

[Martin Weidmann]

Right, I thought you were talking about personal consequences [my bad]

Agreed that it is unrealistic for Oswald to run 0.9 miles in 6 minutes to get there but there is no evidence, literally zero, that he left the rooming house at 1:03 PM
The only thing I can think you're basing that time on is the testimony of Earlene Roberts in which she says:

"Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after..."

This would seem to suggest a time around 1:03 PM taken in tandem with her observation that Oswald was in his room for "3 or 4 minutes".
However, when she qualifies why she believes it is "a little later" than 1 o'clock it is revealed she only has a vague grasp of what time it is:

" Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say..."

She believes it's 1:00 PM because it's after JFK was shot!
Not because she saw it on a watch or a clock or heard it on the TV.
She actually says "what time I wouldn't want to say".
She is clearly guessing at the time and using the shooting of JFK to gauge this estimation.
To stick a specific time on this is unrealistic (IMO)
The best we can hope to do is give it a realistic range of times for when Oswald leaves the house.
It's not a question of undermining the reliability of Roberts' testimony, it's just accepting that she reveals her uncertainty regarding the time in what she says. Her uncertainty regarding his shirt is also revealed.
Conversely, she is absolutely certain about a couple of aspects of this interaction:

1) That Oswald was in a big hurry
2) That he was wearing a zip-up jacket when he left the house

As far as I'm concerned, a reasonable interpretation of Roberts' testimony reveals these two things.
A reasonable interpretation of her testimony does not allow to put a specific time on when Oswald left the rooming house.

The only thing I can think you're basing that time on is the testimony of Earlene Roberts in which she says:

Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after..."

Indeed, but it needs to be placed in context. She said that she was trying to get the television to work so she could watch the 1 PM news to find out more about Kennedy.

Also, the evidence presented by the WC about Oswald's journey from the TSBD to the rooming house does not leave much room for him to have arrived prior to 1 PM.

And you also need to take in account that the fastest way on foot from the rooming house to 10th street takes 11 minutes, according to a split time trial Gary Mack did some years ago. Personally I'm not convinced of that time, because I am a fast walker and when I walked the distance it took me 12,5 minutes.

If Tippit was shot at 1:09, then Oswald must have been there at least a minute earlier, which means 1:08. Obviously that would mean that he left the rooming house at around 12:56 which, IMO, is impossible.

[Richard Smith]

The only thing I can think you're basing that time on is the testimony of Earlene Roberts in which she says:

Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after..."

Indeed, but it needs to be placed in context. She said that she was trying to get the television to work so she could watch the 1 PM news to find out more about Kennedy.

Also, the evidence presented by the WC about Oswald's journey from the TSBD to the rooming house does not leave much room for him to have arrived prior to 1 PM.

And you also need to take in account that the fastest way on foot from the rooming house to 10th street takes 11 minutes, according to a split time trial Gary Mack did some years ago. Personally I'm not convinced of that time, because I am a fast walker and when I walked the distance it took me 12,5 minutes.

If Tippit was shot at 1:09, then Oswald must have been there at least a minute earlier, which means 1:08. Obviously that would mean that he left the rooming house at around 12:56 which, IMO, is impossible.

The timeline is relevant only if there is any actual doubt that Oswald was at the Tippit scene when he was murdered.  It alone doesn't create doubt if we otherwise have sufficient evidence that Oswald was there.  That is like trying to convince someone holding a winning lottery ticket in their hand that the odds against them winning are so high that it couldn't happen.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening, no matter how improbable, are no longer relevant.   However short you think that timeframe is for Oswald to get to the scene, the evidence confirms he was there.  Multiple witnesses, the pistol, the ammo link Oswald to the crime.  There is no doubt Oswald was there even if you falsely believe he had to strap a jet engine to back to arrive in time.  Endless pedantic nitpicking and subjective bias in a desperate attempt to create doubt doesn't change the evidence of Oswald's guilt. 

[Dan O'meara]

The only thing I can think you're basing that time on is the testimony of Earlene Roberts in which she says:

Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after..."

Indeed, but it needs to be placed in context. She said that she was trying to get the television to work so she could watch the 1 PM news to find out more about Kennedy.

Also, the evidence presented by the WC about Oswald's journey from the TSBD to the rooming house does not leave much room for him to have arrived prior to 1 PM.

And you also need to take in account that the fastest way on foot from the rooming house to 10th street takes 11 minutes, according to a split time trial Gary Mack did some years ago. Personally I'm not convinced of that time, because I am a fast walker and when I walked the distance it took me 12,5 minutes.

If Tippit was shot at 1:09, then Oswald must have been there at least a minute earlier, which means 1:08. Obviously that would mean that he left the rooming house at around 12:56 which, IMO, is impossible.

Impossible??

If the shooting happens at exactly 1:09 PM
And If Oswald arrives exactly one minute beforehand at 1:08 PM
And if Mack's time of 11 minutes is correct.
This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:57 PM.
Is that also impossible?

What if the shooting happens at 1:09.30 PM
What if Bowley's watch reads 1: 10.30 PM
And what if Oswald only needs to be there 30 seconds beforehand, at 1:09 PM
This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:58 PM.
Is that impossible?

"Indeed, but it needs to be placed in context. She said that she was trying to get the television to work so she could watch the 1 PM news to find out more about Kennedy."

I'm not familiar with this statement bit it doesn't seem to exclude the possibility that she was trying to get it to work before the 1:00 PM news.

"Also, the evidence presented by the WC about Oswald's journey from the TSBD to the rooming house does not leave much room for him to have arrived prior to 1 PM."

But it does leave some time. How much time does it leave - 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 4 minutes. 5 minutes? What is the exact time Oswald gets in the taxi? What is the exact amount of time taken for the taxi ride? How quickly does Oswald move to cover the distance back to the rooming house from where the taxi drops him off? How long is he in his room?
These things can't be known with exact precision, hence the need for a range of times.

I most certainly do not accept that it is "impossible" for Oswald to be around 10th and Patton for the timeline you are presenting.

[Dan O'meara]

The timeline is relevant only if there is any actual doubt that Oswald was at the Tippit scene when he was murdered.  It alone doesn't create doubt if we otherwise have sufficient evidence that Oswald was there.  That is like trying to convince someone holding a winning lottery ticket in their hand that the odds against them winning are so high that it couldn't happen.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening, no matter how improbable, are no longer relevant.   However short you think that timeframe is for Oswald to get to the scene, the evidence confirms he was there.  Multiple witnesses, the pistol, the ammo link Oswald to the crime.  There is no doubt Oswald was there even if you falsely believe he had to strap a jet engine to back to arrive in time.  Endless pedantic nitpicking and subjective bias in a desperate attempt to create doubt doesn't change the evidence of Oswald's guilt.

Don't forget the jacket.