Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

Because you don't know the case means I'm lying?  Do you really believe that article I linked to is the only place on the entire internet where information on the Nash's can be found?

It's not my problem that you don't know the facts of the Tippit murder.

Of course you are lying, because if you were not you would have produced the link that would prove me wrong.

Let's see how well you know the facts of this case;

Hi Dale.  I don't recall if I responded to this post or not.  This thread got caught up in a lot of political debate for many pages.

In my opinion (based on eyewitness descriptions), Tippit and Oswald carry on a conversation for less than thirty seconds.  The shooting itself probably took less than five seconds (and is therefore irrelevant when discussing a timeline).

Ted Callaway is at the patrol car reporting the shooting at 1:19 and his description of his actions tells us that he's at that patrol car probably three minutes after the shots rang out.

All ya gotta do is read Callaway's own words.  He did not make his way up to the corner until after the killer had reached the corner of Patton and Jefferson.

Callaway was at the scene sooner than five minutes after the shots; he just did not get on the police radio to report it immediately upon arriving at the scene.

You really should read his testimony a little closer.

 

3 minutes or 5 minutes between the shots and the use of the radio by Callaway. It seems somebody is adapting his story depending on the conversation.

Now, let's examine this claim;

Ted Callaway is at the patrol car reporting the shooting at 1:19 and his description of his actions tells us that he's at that patrol car probably three minutes after the shots rang out.

Which means that in this version Tippit was shot at 1:16. But, hang on, Helen Markham testified she catched her regular bus to  work at 1:15, so what would she be still doing at 10th & Patton at 1:16?.

Never mind that Markham also said she left home at "a little after 1", perhaps even 1:06 or 1:07, and never mind that the FBI timed the one block walk from Markham's home to the corner of 10th and Patton as taking no more than 2,5 minutes. Now, how does any of this compute with Tippit being shot at 1:16?

The obvious answer: It doesn't!

[Bill Brown]

Of course you are lying, because if you were not you would have produced the link that would prove me wrong.

Let's see how well you know the facts of this case;



 

3 minutes or 5 minutes between the shots and the use of the radio by Callaway. It seems somebody is adapting his story depending on the conversation.

Now, let's examine this claim;

Ted Callaway is at the patrol car reporting the shooting at 1:19 and his description of his actions tells us that he's at that patrol car probably three minutes after the shots rang out.

Which means that in this version Tippit was shot at 1:16. But, hang on, Helen Markham testified she catched her regular bus to  work at 1:15, so what would she be still doing at 10th & Patton at 1:16?.

Never mind that Markham also said she left home at "a little after 1", perhaps even 1:06 or 1:07, and never mind that the FBI timed the one block walk from Markham's home to the corner of 10th and Patton as taking no more than 2,5 minutes. Now, how does any of this compute with Tippit being shot at 1:16?

The obvious answer: It doesn't!

If the shooting occurred before 1:10, then you have to explain why it would have taken Callaway ten minutes to get to Tippit's patrol car radio to report the incident at 1:19.  He tells us what he did upon hearing the shots and it does not take ten minutes.

[Bill Brown]

"Went to his room.  Got a short coat to put on."  --  Earlene Roberts

Oswald left the rooming house in a jacket.  Roberts told the Warren Commission that he was zipping it up as he went out the front door.  He's seen without a jacket by Johnny Brewer on Jefferson outside the shoe store.  Forget Tenth and Patton.  Forget the jacket found underneath the car behind the Texaco station.  Why would Oswald ditch his jacket between the rooming house on Beckley and the shoe store on Jefferson?

[Martin Weidmann]

If the shooting occurred before 1:10, then you have to explain why it would have taken Callaway ten minutes to get to Tippit's patrol car radio to report the incident at 1:19.  He tells us what he did upon hearing the shots and it does not take ten minutes.

I agree. It took him no more than 3 minutes. Callaway's radio call took place around 3 minutes after the shots at 1:13 at the latest. The radio transcript times are not real time, and thus unreliable for timing purposes, as explained to the HSCA by J.C. Bowles, the man in charge of the dispatchers. I can demonstrate the 3 minutes in other ways as well, but for now let's just say there is corroboration for the 3 minutes from DPD officer Croy, the first police officer to arrive on the scene. He was in his car at Zang and Colorado when he heard the Bowley radio call. At 30 mph it took him no more than 2 minutes (and probably less) to get to the scene and when he arrived two civilians (Bowley and Callaway) were helping loading Tippit into the ambulance. So, Callaway was there 3 minutes after the shots.

In addition, if Callaway's radio call took place at 1:19, how else are you going to explain the discrepancy with the Markham time line? If Markham left home at 1:06 or 1:07 (as I believe she did) and the FBI timed the one block walk from 9th to 10th street as taking 2,5 max, she would be at in position to see Tippit being killed at 1:09 or 1:10 at the latest. The Callaway radio call scenario (1:19) requires Markham to have taken at least 10 minutes to walk one block. It also requires that Markham could not have catched her bus at 1:15 (be it either the 1:12 or 1:22 bus).

The sequence of events I have already described in a timeline based on witness testimony, documents and local knowledge, fits together perfectly, without any need for Markham's clock to be wrong, Bowley's watch to be wrong, the clocks at Methodist Hospital being wrong and DPD officer Davenport being mistaken twice about the time Tippit was declared DOA at the hospital.
It all fits, except for the times on the radio transcripts. In one of my earlier posts I have already demonstrated that it is physically impossible for Benavides to mess around with the police radio for two minutes (as you said he did), because that simply doesn't compute with Bowley's and Callaway's account.

Btw, Callaway told FBI SA Carter in February 1964 that he heard the shots shortly after hearing the news of Kennedy being shot at "about 1:00 PM", just like he said in his Affidavit of 11/22/63. In his WC testimony he is more ambivalent, because of the way Ball asks the questions.

Mr. BALL. Now, Mr. Callaway, around 1:15 or so of that day, where were you? [talk about a leading question!]
Mr. CALLAWAY. I was standing on the front porch of our office.
Mr. BALL. That is at 401 East Jefferson?
Mr. CALLAWAY. No; 501.
Mr. BALL. I will show you a picture which we will mark as 538.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 538 for identification.)
Mr. BALL. Does this show a picture of the office?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir. That is it.
Mr. BALL. Now you went down there one day last week to have some pictures taken.
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you attempt to stand in the same place you were at the time?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where you were standing November 22d around 1 o'clock or so?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.

[Martin Weidmann]

"Went to his room.  Got a short coat to put on."  --  Earlene Roberts

Oswald left the rooming house in a jacket.  Roberts told the Warren Commission that he was zipping it up as he went out the front door.  He's seen without a jacket by Johnny Brewer on Jefferson outside the shoe store.  Forget Tenth and Patton.  Forget the jacket found underneath the car behind the Texaco station.  Why would Oswald ditch his jacket between the rooming house on Beckley and the shoe store on Jefferson?

Here we go again;

According to Marina, Oswald had only two jackets, being a gray jacket (CE 162) and a blue/gray jacket (CE 163), and no other jackets have ever been found. The blue/gray jacket (CE 163) was found at the TSBD, so that was the jacket Oswald was wearing on Friday morning. Wesley Buell Frazier testified that he saw Oswald wearing a gray jacket during the trip to Irving on Thursday evening. It is true that Frazier was shown both jackets during his testimony and he could not identify them. But, having said that, as we know for a fact that Oswald was wearing CE 163 on Friday morning, there is only one other jacket he could have been wearing to Irving on Thursday evening and that's CE 162.

Please explain how CE 162 could have made it's way from Irving to the rooming house between Thursday evening and Friday 1:00 PM?

[Martin Weidmann]

Because you don't know the case means I'm lying?  Do you really believe that article I linked to is the only place on the entire internet where information on the Nash's can be found?

It's not my problem that you don't know the facts of the Tippit murder.

Are you going to produce the proof that the Nash couple actually saw the Funeral Home time stamped slip, some time in this century? I seriously doubt it.

As for my two last posts, I predict it's either going to be crickets from Brown, or he'll just ignore it and ask another silly question.

[Bill Brown]

I agree. It took him no more than 3 minutes. Callaway's radio call took place around 3 minutes after the shots at 1:13 at the latest. The radio transcript times are not real time, and thus unreliable for timing purposes, as explained to the HSCA by J.C. Bowles, the man in charge of the dispatchers. I can demonstrate the 3 minutes in other ways as well, but for now let's just say there is corroboration for the 3 minutes from DPD officer Croy, the first police officer to arrive on the scene. He was in his car at Zang and Colorado when he heard the Bowley radio call. At 30 mph it took him no more than 2 minutes (and probably less) to get to the scene and when he arrived two civilians (Bowley and Callaway) were helping loading Tippit into the ambulance. So, Callaway was there 3 minutes after the shots.

In addition, if Callaway's radio call took place at 1:19, how else are you going to explain the discrepancy with the Markham time line? If Markham left home at 1:06 or 1:07 (as I believe she did) and the FBI timed the one block walk from 9th to 10th street as taking 2,5 max, she would be at in position to see Tippit being killed at 1:09 or 1:10 at the latest. The Callaway radio call scenario (1:19) requires Markham to have taken at least 10 minutes to walk one block. It also requires that Markham could not have catched her bus at 1:15 (be it either the 1:12 or 1:22 bus).

The sequence of events I have already described in a timeline based on witness testimony, documents and local knowledge, fits together perfectly, without any need for Markham's clock to be wrong, Bowley's watch to be wrong, the clocks at Methodist Hospital being wrong and DPD officer Davenport being mistaken twice about the time Tippit was declared DOA at the hospital.
It all fits, except for the times on the radio transcripts. In one of my earlier posts I have already demonstrated that it is physically impossible for Benavides to mess around with the police radio for two minutes (as you said he did), because that simply doesn't compute with Bowley's and Callaway's account.

Btw, Callaway told FBI SA Carter in February 1964 that he heard the shots shortly after hearing the news of Kennedy being shot at "about 1:00 PM", just like he said in his Affidavit of 11/22/63. In his WC testimony he is more ambivalent, because of the way Ball asks the questions.

Mr. BALL. Now, Mr. Callaway, around 1:15 or so of that day, where were you? [talk about a leading question!]
Mr. CALLAWAY. I was standing on the front porch of our office.
Mr. BALL. That is at 401 East Jefferson?
Mr. CALLAWAY. No; 501.
Mr. BALL. I will show you a picture which we will mark as 538.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 538 for identification.)
Mr. BALL. Does this show a picture of the office?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir. That is it.
Mr. BALL. Now you went down there one day last week to have some pictures taken.
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you attempt to stand in the same place you were at the time?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where you were standing November 22d around 1 o'clock or so?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir.

I agree. It took him no more than 3 minutes. Callaway's radio call took place around 3 minutes after the shots at 1:13 at the latest. The radio transcript times are not real time...

There's really nothing for us to discuss then.  You're in denial about the accuracy of the time stamps on the police tapes, without any evidence to suggest the tapes were not accurate (at least within one minute either way).

In addition, if Callaway's radio call took place at 1:19, how else are you going to explain the discrepancy with the Markham time line? If Markham left home at 1:06 or 1:07...

Easy.  Markham didn't leave home when she estimated she did.  I'll take the accuracy pf the police tapes versus an estimate by a witness.

In one of my earlier posts I have already demonstrated that it is physically impossible for Benavides to mess around with the police radio for two minutes (as you said he did)...

I don't believe I said that.  I think I said a minute and a half to two minutes.


Look.  Bottom line.  You doubt the authentic time stamps of the police tapes.  I don't.  There's nothing to discuss, really.

[Bill Brown]

Here we go again;

According to Marina, Oswald had only two jackets, being a gray jacket (CE 162) and a blue/gray jacket (CE 163), and no other jackets have ever been found. The blue/gray jacket (CE 163) was found at the TSBD, so that was the jacket Oswald was wearing on Friday morning. Wesley Buell Frazier testified that he saw Oswald wearing a gray jacket during the trip to Irving on Thursday evening. It is true that Frazier was shown both jackets during his testimony and he could not identify them. But, having said that, as we know for a fact that Oswald was wearing CE 163 on Friday morning, there is only one other jacket he could have been wearing to Irving on Thursday evening and that's CE 162.

Please explain how CE 162 could have made it's way from Irving to the rooming house between Thursday evening and Friday 1:00 PM?

Please explain how CE 162 could have made it's way from Irving to the rooming house between Thursday evening and Friday 1:00 PM?

Here we go again.

You continue to go on and on about CE-162 even though I clearly said to forget about that jacket in evidence.

Forget Tenth and Patton.  Forget the jacket found underneath the car behind the Texaco station.  Why would Oswald ditch his jacket between the rooming house on Beckley and the shoe store on Jefferson?