Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Mitch Todd]

[...]
602 then tries to make a call but is interrupted by Callaway. The call could have been to tell the dispatcher they were Code 5 to the Methodist Hospital. I think the amount of interactions between 602 arriving at the scene and Callaway placing his call make it clear there was enough time for Callaway to help load Tippit into the ambulance before he made the call.
No other ambulance arrives during this time.

Two things, if someone else hasn't already pointed this out:

1.) Callaway said that he tried to use the radio because he didn't know whether the shooting had been reported. However, the ambulance's presence would have been definitive proof that the shooting had indeed been reported, and that there was no reason for Callaway to break in on channel one.

2.) Callaway made clear that the transmission was the first action he took once he got to the scene. If he'd helped load Tippit into the ambulance first, then he wouldn't have said that the radio was the first thing he went for.

There isn't enough information in the abortive 602 transmissions during this time to determine exactly what 602 was trying to say. Any interpretation is going to be guesswork.

It is interesting to note that around 1:22 PM 602 makes the call "602 in service" which, I assume, means they have dropped Tippit off at the Methodist Hospital. This would indeed give an approximate time of 3 minutes for the journey to have been made between the murder scene and the Methodist Hospital. It would also indicate the DPD time calls were about two minutes off (if the 1:24 PM time is independent from the DPD time calls)

As far as I've been able to find, "In service" tends to mean two things: that someone just fired up their radio, or that someone just tuned into the channel from another frequency. That is, it seems to be related to the status of the radio rather than the status of the unit itself. 

Also, the ambulance stayed at Methodist once they dropped Tippit off. Once Tippit's body had been released to the county, the same crew loaded his body up again and drove it to Parkland for the autopsy.

[Dan O'meara]

Benevides makes his unsuccessful call on Tippit's radio

One minute later Bowley makes his call.

Two minutes after this Callaway makes his call


Way too simplistic.

Let's add times to it.

Benavides said that he waited in his truck until the killer had disappeared on Patton. That took 40 seconds
 
So we have:

00:00 Killing of Tippit
00:40 Benavides gets out of his car, checks Tippit and tries to get the radio to work at approximately
01:00 Benavides starts keying the mic and (according to Bill Brown) the actual recording has him doing that one and half to two minutes after which Bowley takes over the mic at (approximately)
02:30 Bowley makes his call and it lasts 46 seconds which means it ends at 03:16

If Callaway made his call two minutes later it would be at 05:16 after the shots.

Now for the really big assumption - let's assume Benevides is in Tippit's car two minutes after the shooting,
This means Callaway makes his call 5 minutes after the shooting.

Benavides was in Tippit's car approx 45 - 50 seconds after the shooting.

In this time Callaway has watched Oswald run down Patton and had some kind of brief interaction with him.
He then followed Oswald down Patton (according to Guinyard).
He then has some kind of interaction with B D Searcy.
He then runs back up Patton and over to the squad car.

The distance of one block (from 10th street to Jefferson) takes 2,5 minutes to walk. Running it takes less than a minute. Even if Callaway waiting until the killer turned the corner to Jefferson, the whole thing wouldn't have taken 5 minutes for Callaway to get to the scene. 3 minutes is a far more reasonable estimate.

He briefly examines Tippit.
The ambulance arrives and he helps load Tippit into it.
He then makes his call.

Neither here nor there without time specification. Bill Brown said earlier that Callaway arrived at the scene at 3 minutes after the shots and I agree with him. Which means that the time line looks like;

00:00 Killing of Tippit
00:40 Benavides gets out of his car, checks Tippit and tries to get the radio to work at approximately
01:00 Benavides starts keying the mic and (according to Bill Brown) the actual recording has him doing that one and half to two minutes after which Bowley takes over the mic at (approximately)
02:30 to 03:00 Bowley makes his call and it lasts 46 seconds which means it ends at 03:16 or 3:46

03:00 Callaway arrives at the scene

5 minutes seems perfectly reasonable.

Except it isn't. The distance he and the killer had to run down and up Patton from and to 10th streets simply do not allow for a 5 minute duration conclusion.


When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.

So now you are using the fact that Callaway did not know a call had already been made as "evidence" that it must have taken him longer than 3 minutes to get there? Really?


It mustn't have escaped his attention that there were no police at the scene which probably prompted him into making the call as the ambulance was leaving.

Speculation.

examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls

You can not examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls, but still use them to create a time line which simply doesn't fit.

Rather than trying to defend a pre-determined conclusion, perhaps you should try to evaluate all the available evidence.

I'm glad you pretty much agree with my estimations.
I have Callaway making his call about 5 minutes after the shooting and you have 5 minutes 16 seconds. That's not bad.
I have Callaway arriving at the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting and so do you.
You do seem to get a bit confused though. I posted:

When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.

So I'm saying Callaway could've reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting, to which you responded:

"So now you are using the fact that Callaway did not know a call had already been made as "evidence" that it must have taken him longer than 3 minutes to get there? Really?"

You seem to think I was saying it took Callaway "longer than 3 minutes" to reach the scene but that's not what I said at all.
We are in agreement about how long it might have taken Callaway to reach the scene - 3 minutes.

Again, you seem a bit confused when I implied that 5 minutes seemed a perfectly reasonable time between the shooting and Callaway making his call when you post:

"Except it isn't. The distance he and the killer had to run down and up Patton from and to 10th streets simply do not allow for a 5 minute duration conclusion."

Nobody is saying it took him 5 minutes to run up and down Patton to 10th Street. We're in agreement that it probably took around 3 minutes.

The problem you seem to be having is that I've demonstrated, using the DPD tapes, that the ambulance arrives before Callaway makes his call. So after arriving at the scene (3 minutes), Callaway spends a couple of minutes examining Tippit's body and helping to load him into the ambulance.
I know my estimations are simplistic but I'm more concerned with the order of events and no matter how much you pretend it doesn't, the DPD tapes do contain the order of events and approximate times between these events.

[Martin Weidmann]

I already explained this; so did several other members.  Scroll back about thirty pages for a look.

What don't you understand about "I don't need your explanation. I need you to show me where in his testimony McWatters said it."

Run, Bill... run

[Bill Brown]

What don't you understand about "I don't need your explanation. I need you to show me where in his testimony McWatters said it."

Run, Bill... run

I'm not running from anything.  What don't you understand about I have already explained this; so have several other members.  Scroll back about thirty pages for a look.

[Dan O'meara]

Two things, if someone else hasn't already pointed this out:

1.) Callaway said that he tried to use the radio because he didn't know whether the shooting had been reported. However, the ambulance's presence would have been definitive proof that the shooting had indeed been reported, and that there was no reason for Callaway to break in on channel one.

2.) Callaway made clear that the transmission was the first action he took once he got to the scene. If he'd helped load Tippit into the ambulance first, then he wouldn't have said that the radio was the first thing he went for.

There isn't enough information in the abortive 602 transmissions during this time to determine exactly what 602 was trying to say. Any interpretation is going to be guesswork.

You need to go back a few posts to see my examination of the DPD tapes and how they demonstrate the ambulance arriving at the murder scene before Callaway makes his call.
Callaway might have been struck by the fact there were no police at the scene which may have prompted him to make the call

As far as I've been able to find, "In service" tends to mean two things: that someone just fired up their radio, or that someone just tuned into the channel from another frequency. That is, it seems to be related to the status of the radio rather than the status of the unit itself. 

Also, the ambulance stayed at Methodist once they dropped Tippit off. Once Tippit's body had been released to the county, the same crew loaded his body up again and drove it to Parkland for the autopsy.

Could it mean something else because they'd been using the radio constantly and were on the same channel.

[Dan O'meara]

So much desperation to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Why not critique the evidence being provided rather than some meaningless comment?

It is interesting to note that around 1:22 PM 602 makes the call "602 in service" which, I assume, means they have dropped Tippit off at the Methodist Hospital. This would indeed give an approximate time of 3 minutes for the journey to have been made between the murder scene and the Methodist Hospital. It would also indicate the DPD time calls were about two minutes off (if the 1:24 PM time is independent from the DPD time calls)

How in the world is it possible to have an honest conversation with guys like you when you keep on changing your mind.

So, now the DPD time calls are off by about two minutes? How does that work out with the times for the calls by Bowley and Callaway. Did they also happen two minutes earlier?

Just a few posts earlier I stated that there was something off about the time calls on the DPD tapes and you agreed!
I've not changed my mind about it, it's more like you've got a really bad memory

And what about DPD officer Davenport who, in two separate day one documents states that Tippit was declared DOA at 1:15 at the hospital? He was actually there and witnessed it. Are you calling him "mistaken" or simply a liar?

Are you calling Markham a liar?
Are you saying she lied about catching the 1;15 PM bus to work. Her regular bus? Is that what you're saying?
What exactly are you saying?

[Martin Weidmann]

I'm glad you pretty much agree with my estimations.
I have Callaway making his call about 5 minutes after the shooting and you have 5 minutes 16 seconds. That's not bad.

No. Not sure where you get from that I agree with your estimations because I don't agree at all.
I have Callaway making his call at 3 minutes after the shooting. The bogus DPD time line would suggest 5 minutes and 16 seconds, but I don't buy that for a second.

I have Callaway arriving at the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting and so do you.

He was making his radio call about three minutes after the shooting

You do seem to get a bit confused though. I posted:

When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.

So I'm saying Callaway could've reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting, to which you responded:

"So now you are using the fact that Callaway did not know a call had already been made as "evidence" that it must have taken him longer than 3 minutes to get there? Really?"

You seem to think I was saying it took Callaway "longer than 3 minutes" to reach the scene but that's not what I said at all.
We are in agreement about how long it might have taken Callaway to reach the scene - 3 minutes.

I'm not the one who is confused. You are the one making the mistake to relate everything to the DPD radio transcripts. That's where the confusion comes from. Callaway didn't need 3 minutes to reach the scene.

Again, you seem a bit confused when I said that 5 minutes seemed a perfectly reasonable time between the shooting and Callaway making his call when you post:

"Except it isn't. The distance he and the killer had to run down and up Patton from and to 10th streets simply do not allow for a 5 minute duration conclusion."

Nobody is saying it took him 5 minutes to run up and down Patton to 10th Street. We're in agreement that it probably took around 3 minutes.

Good, if we are agreement that it took him around 3 minutes to get to the scene, but if you are going to claim that it took him two minutes to make his call, then I most certainly disagree.

The problem you seem to be having is that I've demonstrated, using the DPD tapes, that the ambulance arrives before Callaway makes his call.

I don't really need you to tell me what problem I seem to be having, because I have no problem at all. You have not demonstrated anything else but that you blindly rely on the DPD tapes despite the fact that the man in charge of the DPD dispatcher clearly told us they were not providing "real time".

So after arriving at the scene (3 minutes), Callaway spends a couple of minutes examining Tippit's body and helping to load him into the ambulance.

Hilarious... Would that be when he had the "coffee break" I previously discussed with Bill Brown. "A couple of minutes"... really? You might want to read his testimony again.

I know my estimations are simplistic but I'm more concerned with the order of events and no matter how much you pretend it doesn't, the DPD tapes do contain the order of events and approximate times between these events.

Where are you getting from that the DPD tapes do not show the sequence of events? Of course they do, except the time attached to each event is simply wrong.

I can provide you with a time line which has each witness corroborating the other one, there is no need for any claims that watches were off, that Markham was late to miss her regular bus, that Bowley's watch was at least 5 minutes off (meaning he picked up his daughter from school 5 minutes late), hospital clocks were wrong and a DPD detective as well as a justice of the peace were mistaken about Tippit's DOA. In that time line everything simply fits.

Or alternative, there is the official narrative, based on the DPD time stamps, which - according to the WC - has Tippit being killed at 1:16 (Myers claims it was 1:14:30) and which requires all the people mentioned above to be 100% wrong and can't even match the individual events (involving each individual) in a fluent sequence.

The last time I told you this, you said that the scenario in which it all fits together was the more credible (or words to that effect), yet here you are desperately trying to defend the second (WC) scenario. Why is that?

[Martin Weidmann]

I'm not running from anything.  What don't you understand about I have already explained this; so have several other members.  Scroll back about thirty pages for a look.

Of course you are running. In the interview you claimed "McWatters testified that Oswald got on the bus".

That was a lie, as McWatters never testified anything of the kind.

Or can you show me in his testimony where he said it?