Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

Firstly, Martin, you keep dragging Bill Brown into a discussion we are having. What I'm putting forward has nothing to do with Bill Brown. The analysis of the DPD tapes that clearly prove the ambulance arrives before Callaway's call are my own work. Something I've not seen or heard anywhere else (which isn't to say it hasn't been done before)

Secondly, when I got my head around the timeline you were proposing I called it impressive because, as far as I'm concerned, it is.
It is a far better fit for all the testimony than anything I can come up with at the moment.

The main issues with it, as far as I can see, are (in order of importance):

1) The ambulance arriving before the Callaway call in the DPD tapes

2) Bowley arrives while Benevides is on the radio - Bowley is 1:10 PM, according to his watch, Benevides is calling at 1:16 PM according to DPD tapes. This is a time discrepancy of 6 minutes between the two and Bowles does not hint at anything even remotely like this.

3) You have Callaway calling 3 minutes after the shooting but the tapes have Callaway calling 3 minutes after Benevides tries to make his call. The impression I get from Bowles is that these discrepancies gradually increase over time and are then corrected. I do not see him saying that you can lose a minute or two every three minutes. It would make the system redundant.

"Ambulance 602 made it's code 6 call only seconds before Callaway used the radio"

If this is the case it clears away the main issue with your timeline. In an earlier post I demonstrated, using the order and number of interactions recorded on the DPD tapes, that there was a significant time difference between the ambulance arriving and Callaway's call. This is the post:

In my mind this is clearly longer than 6 seconds. This is a lot closer to a minute and supports the notion that as Callaway is stood looking at Tippit's body (as he testifies to doing) the ambulance arrives and Callaway helps load the body. This is also supported by Guinyard's testimony:

Mr. BALL. And what did Callaway do?
Mr. GUINYARD. He turned around and run back to the street and we helped load the policeman in the ambulance.
Mr. BALL. He ran back up to 10th Street, did you say?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with him?
Mr. GUINYARD. Right with him.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police car there?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What did you see besides the police car?
Mr. GUINYARD. The police that was laying down in the front of the car.
Mr. BALL. A policeman?
Mr. GUINYARD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was he dead or alive at that time?
Mr. GUINYARD. He looked like he was dead to me.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. Helped put him in the ambulance.

The only way it might possibly work (in my mind) is if as soon as the ambulance sees the murder scene off in the distance they put in the call that they have arrived  and the sirens on Callaway's call is 602 arriving. But this is still very problematic.

The main issues with it, as far as I can see, are (in order of importance):

1) The ambulance arriving before the Callaway call in the DPD tapes

That's not a big issue as I have already explained to you and I'll do it again below

2) Bowley arrives while Benevides is on the radio - Bowley is 1:10 PM, according to his watch, Benevides is calling at 1:16 PM according to DPD tapes. This is a time discrepancy of 6 minutes between the two and Bowles does not hint at anything even remotely like this.

The discrepancy is what it is. Either you conclude Bowley's watch was 6 minutes slow or you conclude that the time stamps of the DPD tapes is off by six minutes. To determine which conclusion is the correct one, you need to look at all the other events and see how they match. I argue that Bowley's scenario matches seamlessly with Markham's times as well as the information we know about Benavides' actions. To match the entire sequence of events with the DPD time stamps is impossible. For instance, if the ambulance left 10th & Patton at 1:19 for a two minute drive to the hospital, how can it arrive at 1:24 (according to Dale Myers) and how do you explain the two documents in which DPD officer Davenport confirms that Tippit was declared dead (DOA) in his presence at 1:15. It just doesn't fit.

Bowles didn't specifically say that the clocks could be 6 minutes wrong, but if you read his information more closely you will notice that the 6 minutes difference isn't all that impossible.

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

Note that Bowles does not say that the master clock's "official" time is the same as "real" time. Secondly he says that the clocks used by the dispatchers indicated the incorrect time and that it was not uncommon for for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. And he then adds that when the dispatcher's clocks were a minute or so out they needed adjustment, but in busy periods that was not always done.

So, if the dispatcher's clock could differ two minutes from the "official" time on the master clock, how much did they differ from the "real" time?

Bowles then continues by explaining that the digital clocks used by the dispatchers were not synchronized with any time standard.

In addition to the times stamped on calls by telephone operators, the radio operators stamped the "time" as calls were dispatched, and the "time" that officers completed an assignment and returned to service. Radio operators were also furnished with 12-hour digital clocks to facilitate their time references when they were not using call sheets containing stamped time. These digital clocks were not synchronized with any time standard. Therefore, the time "actual" and time "broadcast" could easily be a minute or so apart.


So, what we now have is a clock used by the dispatcher that could be off by two minutes from the "offical" time, which in turn was not "real" time and we have a time difference between "actual" time (whatever that is) and "broadcast" time.

And still that's not all. He also points out that dispatchers did not always give the correct time stamp when there was heavy radio traffic.

Next, consideration should be given to the methods of individual radio operators. A given operator at a given time might broadcast "time" a little early in one event then a little late the next. Accordingly, a call initiated at, say, 10:10 might be stamped at 10:13 by the dispatcher, only to have intervening radio traffic delay his broadcast. He might go ahead and announce the dispatch time as 10:13 and the digital clock then showed 10:14.

He actually gives as example how a 10:10 event might be time stamped at 10:13 with the digital clock showing 10:14. This clearly demonstrates that it is fully possible that the dispatcher's clocks and time stamps could differ by as much as 3 to 4 minutes from the master clock's "official" time. If the master clock's time then was off by only two minutes from real time, you end up with time stamps that possibly differ 4 or 5 minutes and maybe even 6 minutes from real time.

Let's not forget that the time line not only says that Bowley's watch said 1:10 but also that Markham would have arrived at the corner of 10th and Patton at around 1:09. Without her seeing the shooting she would have continued walking to the bus stop on Jefferson where she would have arrived about 3 minutes later at about 1:12. And then of course there are the officers Poe and Joz who wrote in their report that they heard on the radio about Tippit's death at approximently 1:10

How unlikely a 6 minute time difference between real time and DPD dispatcher time stamps might seems, it has happened unless the above four people are all wrong.

3) You have Callaway calling 3 minutes after the shooting but the tapes have Callaway calling 3 minutes after Benevides tries to make his call. The impression I get from Bowles is that these discrepancies gradually increase over time and are then corrected. I do not see him saying that you can lose a minute or two every three minutes. It would make the system redundant.

No I have Callaway arriving at the scene at roughly 3 minutes after hearing the shots. And I have already demonstrated that as far as real time is concerned the system was in fact redundant, but it served it's purpose of time stamping a sequence of events.

If this is the case it clears away the main issue with your timeline. In an earlier post I demonstrated, using the order and number of interactions recorded on the DPD tapes, that there was a significant time difference between the ambulance arriving and Callaway's call. This is the post:

Have a closer look at the transcript, which starts at 1:19

We have the dispatcher calling out 1:19 twice. And just look how close the second code 6 call of ambulance 602 is to Callaway's radio call.

01:19:00   Dispatcher   10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19.
    602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
    Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85 en route.
    19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)   19
    Dispatcher   19
    19   Give me the correct address on the shooting.
    Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.
    105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   105.
   602 (ambulance)   602, Code 6.
    102 (Ptm. B.L. Jones and Ptm. M.D. Noll)   102, Code 4.
    105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   Was 519 E. Jefferson correct? (Siren)
    Dispatcher   We have two locations; 501 East Jefferson and 501 East Tenth.
    Dispatcher   19, are you en route?
    105 (Ptm. J.M Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   Is this an officer?
                                                        This is northward on Tenth.
    19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)   10-4
        10-4
        10 . . .4.
        10-4
        . . . on Tenth.
    19   19 is en route.
    Dispatcher   10-4, 19.
    605 (ambulance)   605, Code 5.
    
        Dispatcher   10-4, 605. 1:19.
    Dispatcher   85.
    602 (ambulance)   602.
    Dispatcher   85.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85.
    Dispatcher   Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   10-4
    Dispatcher   No physical description.
    Citizen   Hello, hello, hello.
    602 (ambulance)   602.
    Citizen   Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead.
    Dispatcher   10-4. We have that information. The citizen us
      
It all happens in less than a minute and I would argue that the code 6 call of the ambulance is made no more than 20 or 30 seconds before Callaway's radio call. But whatever the difference is, it has no major impact on my time line.

[Dan O'meara]

The main issues with it, as far as I can see, are (in order of importance):

1) The ambulance arriving before the Callaway call in the DPD tapes

That's not a big issue as I have already explained to you and I'll do it again below

2) Bowley arrives while Benevides is on the radio - Bowley is 1:10 PM, according to his watch, Benevides is calling at 1:16 PM according to DPD tapes. This is a time discrepancy of 6 minutes between the two and Bowles does not hint at anything even remotely like this.

Bowles didn't specifically say that the clocks could be 6 minutes wrong, but if you read his information more closely you will notice that the 6 minutes difference isn't all that impossible.

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

Note that Bowles does not say that the master clock's "official" time is the same as "real" time. Secondly he says that the clocks used by the dispatchers indicated the incorrect time and that it was not uncommon for for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. And he then adds that when the dispatcher's clocks were a minute or so out they needed adjustment, but in busy periods that was not always done.

So, if the dispatcher's clock could differ two minutes from the "official" time on the master clock, how much did they differ from the "real" time?

Bowles then continues by explaining that the digital clocks used by the dispatchers were not synchronized with any time standard.

In addition to the times stamped on calls by telephone operators, the radio operators stamped the "time" as calls were dispatched, and the "time" that officers completed an assignment and returned to service. Radio operators were also furnished with 12-hour digital clocks to facilitate their time references when they were not using call sheets containing stamped time. These digital clocks were not synchronized with any time standard. Therefore, the time "actual" and time "broadcast" could easily be a minute or so apart.


So, what we now have is a clock used by the dispatcher that could be off by two minutes from the "offical" time, which in turn was not "real" time and we have a time difference between "actual" time (whatever that is) and "broadcast" time.

And still that's not all. He also points out that dispatchers did not always give the correct time stamp when there was heavy radio traffic.

Next, consideration should be given to the methods of individual radio operators. A given operator at a given time might broadcast "time" a little early in one event then a little late the next. Accordingly, a call initiated at, say, 10:10 might be stamped at 10:13 by the dispatcher, only to have intervening radio traffic delay his broadcast. He might go ahead and announce the dispatch time as 10:13 and the digital clock then showed 10:14.

He actually gives as example how a 10:10 event might be time stamped at 10:13 with the digital clock showing 10:14. This clearly demonstrates that it is fully possible that the dispatcher's clocks and time stamps could differ by as much as 3 to 4 minutes from the master clock's "official" time. If the master clock's time then was off by only two minutes from real time, you end up with time stamps that possibly differ 4 or 5 minutes and maybe even 6 minutes from real time.

Let's not forget that the time line not only says that Bowley's watch said 1:10 but also that Markham would have arrived at the corner of 10th and Patton at around 1:09. Without her seeing the shooting she would have continued walking to the bus stop on Jefferson where she would have arrived about 3 minutes later at about 1:12. And then of course there are the officers Poe and Joz who wrote in their report that they heard on the radio about Tippit's death at approximently 1:10

How unlikely a 6 minute time difference between real time and DPD dispatcher time stamps might seems, it has happened unless the above four people are all wrong.

3) You have Callaway calling 3 minutes after the shooting but the tapes have Callaway calling 3 minutes after Benevides tries to make his call. The impression I get from Bowles is that these discrepancies gradually increase over time and are then corrected. I do not see him saying that you can lose a minute or two every three minutes. It would make the system redundant.

No I have Callaway arriving at the scene at roughly 3 minutes after hearing the shots. And I have already demonstrated that as far as real time is concerned the system was in fact redundant, but it served it's purpose of time stamping a sequence of events.

If this is the case it clears away the main issue with your timeline. In an earlier post I demonstrated, using the order and number of interactions recorded on the DPD tapes, that there was a significant time difference between the ambulance arriving and Callaway's call. This is the post:

Have a closer look at the transcript, which starts at 1:19

We have the dispatcher calling out 1:19 twice. And just look how close the second code 6 call of ambulance 602 is to Callaway's radio call.

01:19:00   Dispatcher   10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19.
    602 (ambulance)   What was that address on Jefferson?
    Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85 en route.
    19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)   19
    Dispatcher   19
    19   Give me the correct address on the shooting.
    Dispatcher   501 East Tenth.
    105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   105.
   602 (ambulance)   602, Code 6.
    102 (Ptm. B.L. Jones and Ptm. M.D. Noll)   102, Code 4.
    105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   Was 519 E. Jefferson correct? (Siren)
    Dispatcher   We have two locations; 501 East Jefferson and 501 East Tenth.
    Dispatcher   19, are you en route?
    105 (Ptm. J.M Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)   Is this an officer?
        This is northward on Tenth.
    19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)   10-4
        10-4
        10 . . .4.
        10-4
        . . . on Tenth.
    19   19 is en route.
    Dispatcher   10-4, 19.
    605 (ambulance)   605, Code 5.
    
        Dispatcher   10-4, 605. 1:19.
    Dispatcher   85.
    602 (ambulance)   602.
    Dispatcher   85.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85.
    Dispatcher   Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.
    85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   10-4
    Dispatcher   No physical description.
    Citizen   Hello, hello, hello.
    602 (ambulance)   602.
    Citizen   Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead.
    Dispatcher   10-4. We have that information. The citizen us
      
It all happens in less than a minute and I would argue that the code 6 call of the ambulance is made no more than 20 or 30 seconds before Callaway's radio call. But whatever the difference is, it has no major impact on my time line.

I have to say, Martin, that I'm coming round to your way of thinking.
602 is around 510 East Jefferson when they ask the address. Once they get 501 East 10th they only have to drive a short distance up Denver to the intersection with 10th. When they get to the intersection they only have to look left to see where the small crowd is gathered near the squad car and the call "Code 6" can go in immediately. By the time they roll up to the scene and check out the condition of Tippit, maybe open the back doors etc. there is very little time, a matter of a few seconds, in which Callaway can help load Tippit into the ambulance.
I concede that it is far more likely the sirens on Callaway's call are 602 arriving. As far as the 6 minute discrepancy is concerned...
...in one set of scales is a preponderance of interlocking testimony in the other the 6 minute discrepancy.
Having the ambulance arrive before Callaway's call on the DPD tapes threw me and I hadn't appreciated the very small amount in time which Callaway would have to help out loading Tippit.

Shots at 1:09 PM

[Martin Weidmann]

I have to say, Martin, that I'm coming round to your way of thinking.
602 is around 510 East Jefferson when they ask the address. Once they get 501 East 10th they only have to drive a short distance up Denver to the intersection with 10th. When they get to the intersection they only have to look left to see where the small crowd is gathered near the squad car and the call "Code 6" can go in immediately. By the time they roll up to the scene and check out the condition of Tippit, maybe open the back doors etc. there is very little time, a matter of a few seconds, in which Callaway can help load Tippit into the ambulance.
I concede that it is far more likely the sirens on Callaway's call are 602 arriving. As far as the 6 minute discrepancy is concerned...
...in one set of scales is a preponderance of interlocking testimony in the other the 6 minute discrepancy.
Having the ambulance arrive before Callaway's call on the DPD tapes threw me and I hadn't appreciated the very small amount in time which Callaway would have to help out loading Tippit.

Shots at 1:09 PM

So, you're a truth seeker after all. Well done! 

One final comment about the DPD radio transcripts, going by what Bowles told the HSCA;

Let's say the real time is 1:10
But the master clock connected to the City Hall system shows 1:12 as "official" time
And the clocks used by the dispatchers are all different and 2 minutes faster than the "official" time. That gets the time up to 1:14.
And then consider that the dispatchers were not always punctual in giving the correct time stamp, so consider an error rate of 2 minutes and you can end up with a time stamp of 1:16 when the real time is actually 1:10.

Once the error of a wrong time stamp crept in it was unlikely to be corrected as long as the dispatchers were busy.

I fully appreciate that this may be hard for some to believe or accept, but, considering what Bowles said, it clearly is a possibility that this is what happened and even more so when one considers the fact that it must have been pandemonium at the dispatchers office just after Kennedy's and Tippit's murder. Phone calls coming in, "call sheets" coming in on a conveyer belt and constant radio calls. I can imagine that under those hectic circumstances a dispatcher might lose sight of the time.

Now comes IMO the more difficult part. Can it be determined that the time stamps on DPD radio tapes were simply off because of the problems with the system as described above or are there possibly indications that the actual recordings (made on voice activated equipment) were manipulated.

[Dan O'meara]

So, you're a truth seeker after all. Well done! 

Always have been.

One final comment about the DPD radio transcripts, going by what Bowles told the HSCA;

Let's say the real time is 1:10
But the master clock connected to the City Hall system shows 1:12 as "official" time
And the clocks used by the dispatchers are all different and 2 minutes faster than the "official" time. That gets the time up to 1:14.
And then consider that the dispatchers were not always punctual in giving the correct time stamp, so consider an error rate of 2 minutes and you can end up with a time stamp of 1:16 when the real time is actually 1:10.

Once the error of a wrong time stamp crept in it was unlikely to be corrected as long as the dispatchers were busy.

I fully appreciate that this may be hard for some to believe or accept, but, considering what Bowles said, it clearly is a possibility that this is what happened and even more so when one considers the fact that it must have been pandemonium at the dispatchers office just after Kennedy's and Tippit's murder. Phone calls coming in, "call sheets" coming in on a conveyer belt and constant radio calls. I can imagine that under those hectic circumstances a dispatcher might lose sight of the time.

Still surprised about the size of the discrepancy but once this is ignored everything else fits together in a satisfactory way (IMO).
The clincher was something I should have spotted as soon as I'd noticed ambulance 602 gave the "Code 6" before Callaway's call. I imagined Callaway arriving after 3 minutes then helping out with the ambulance for a minute or more before making his call which is something clearly not supported by the transcripts. Once the travel time of 602 from East Jefferson is taken into account, plus the time to check out Tippit etc., there was only a matter of seconds left for Callaway to help out, which is totally unrealistic.
Once this issue was resolved Callaway's testimony made sense, as did Markham's, Bowley's and Davenport's.
Benevides is quicker on the scene than I imagined but those seconds after the shooting must have seemed a lot longer than they actually were.

[Martin Weidmann]

Always have been.

Still surprised about the size of the discrepancy but once this is ignored everything else fits together in a satisfactory way (IMO).
The clincher was something I should have spotted as soon as I'd noticed ambulance 602 gave the "Code 6" before Callaway's call. I imagined Callaway arriving after 3 minutes then helping out with the ambulance for a minute or more before making his call which is something clearly not supported by the transcripts. Once the travel time of 602 from East Jefferson is taken into account, plus the time to check out Tippit etc., there was only a matter of seconds left for Callaway to help out, which is totally unrealistic.
Once this issue was resolved Callaway's testimony made sense, as did Markham's, Bowley's and Davenport's.
Benevides is quicker on the scene than I imagined but those seconds after the shooting must have seemed a lot longer than they actually were.

 

Despite what some might think, I always invite discussion (not telegram style propaganda) and, for the sake of honest debate,  I would love to hear Bill Brown's rebuttal to the time line I have presented.

Obviously it's not going to change anything after so many years, so why is it impossible to have a honest conversation with a die hard LN?

[Dan O'meara]

Just reading through the 1964 Nash article " The Other Witnesses" in which it states:

"Butler radioed his arrival at the scene at 1:18 p.m., within 60 seconds of leaving the funeral home. He remembers that there were at least 10 people standing around the man lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman.
    Butler ran back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could not cut in. He yelled “Mayday” to no avail, and went back to Tippit."

This is surely a reference to the part on the tapes when 602 is trying to call in but is cut across by Callaway's call.
This appears to confirm that Callaway was in Tippit's car at the time the ambulance arrived, Butler discovers the victim is a police officer then tries to call in but Callaway is on the radio. It is after this Tippit is loaded into the ambulance.

[Dan O'meara]

It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman.

Didn't know of this account -- I haven't seen a blanket mentioned anywhere else.

Who put it there?

None of the known witnesses seemed to have any trouble recognizing the body as a police officer.

Here's a link to the article.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/WC_Period/Reactions_to_Warren_Report/Support_from_center/The_other_witnesses--Nashes.html

[Martin Weidmann]

And...Croy was in uniform...

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in uniform?
Mr. CROY. In uniform.

He must have been close to see Tippit being loaded and Bowley, who already made a call, was there.

Makes no sense Callaway would THEN get on the radio to report a shooting.

Bill Brown's wet dream.

Good observation. I missed that....

And there is more. On 02/25/64 Callaway was interviewed by FBI agent Arthur Carter. In his FD 302 report he writes: 

.......he [Callaway] observed that TIPPIT had been shot in the temple. He said TIPPIT was lying on his pistol and he, CALLAWAY, took the pistol and put it on the hood of TiPPIT's patrol car. Then he got in the patrol car and used the police radio to contact the Dallas Police Department, who advised they were aware that the police officer [TIPPIT] had been shot. He said the dispatcher told him to get off the air. About that time an ambulance came up and CALLAWAY said he and an unidentified citizen helped the ambulance driver put the officer (TIPPIT) in the ambulance.


It blows Brown's silly theory right out of the water, that's for sure, and it makes this exchange, in which Brown claims it is a fact, laughable;

You are aware that Callaway helped load the body into the ambulance BEFORE making his call on the patrol car radio.  Right?  There's your "coffee break".

And you want to debate this stuff live?  Really?

Translation for "coffee break":  Martin was unaware that Callaway helped load the body into the ambulance BEFORE reporting the shooting on the patrol car radio to the police dispatcher.

Martin "wasn't aware" that Callaway helped load Tippit's body into the ambulance before he made his radio call because it never happened. You made it up to score a point. There is not a shred of evidence for it and it doesn't make sense.

The time has long passed that I would accept something at face value because Bill Brown said so.

A fact is still a fact whether you've accepted it or not. Callaway helped load the body and THEN, as the ambulance pulled away, got on the radio to report the incident.  Just a simple act of helping load the body into the ambulance, no "coffee break" required. Like I said before, I don't expect you to know these things.  No biggie.

"And you want to debate this stuff live?  Really?" - Bill Brown