Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Gerry Down]

The LN timeline is that Oswald walked at a brisk pace from his rooming house to the Tippit site in about 11 minutes. However if he ran, which is very possible through the quiet back streets of Oak Cliff, then Oswald could have got to the site in plenty time to shoot Tippit.

CTers can't prove LHO didn't run to the Tippit site. LNers only have to create a case that it is possible that he ran there. They don't have to PROVE he ran there.

[Martin Weidmann]

Impossible??

If the shooting happens at exactly 1:09 PM
And If Oswald arrives exactly one minute beforehand at 1:08 PM
And if Mack's time of 11 minutes is correct.
This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:57 PM.
Is that also impossible?

What if the shooting happens at 1:09.30 PM
What if Bowley's watch reads 1: 10.30 PM
And what if Oswald only needs to be there 30 seconds beforehand, at 1:09 PM
This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:58 PM.
Is that impossible?

"Indeed, but it needs to be placed in context. She said that she was trying to get the television to work so she could watch the 1 PM news to find out more about Kennedy."

I'm not familiar with this statement bit it doesn't seem to exclude the possibility that she was trying to get it to work before the 1:00 PM news.

"Also, the evidence presented by the WC about Oswald's journey from the TSBD to the rooming house does not leave much room for him to have arrived prior to 1 PM."

But it does leave some time. How much time does it leave - 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 4 minutes. 5 minutes? What is the exact time Oswald gets in the taxi? What is the exact amount of time taken for the taxi ride? How quickly does Oswald move to cover the distance back to the rooming house from where the taxi drops him off? How long is he in his room?
These things can't be known with exact precision, hence the need for a range of times.

I most certainly do not accept that it is "impossible" for Oswald to be around 10th and Patton for the timeline you are presenting.

I most certainly do not accept that it is "impossible" for Oswald to be around 10th and Patton for the timeline you are presenting.

I did not say that it was impossible for him to be there. I said it was impossible for him to get there on time on foot. There is a difference.

This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:57 PM.
Is that also impossible?

This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:58 PM.
Is that impossible?

Yes on both counts IMO

And what if Oswald only needs to be there 30 seconds beforehand, at 1:09 PM

merely 30 seconds?

Markham said she watched him crossing Patton and walking to the location of the shooting. That distance alone (from Patton to where Tippit stopped him) took - according to a video posted by Bill Brown - around 30 seconds to walk. Remember Benavides who waited in his truck for an estimated 45 seconds until the killer disappeared on Patton?

And then there was the interaction with Tippit, before Tippit got out of the car and was shot. How long do you think that took?


These things can't be known with exact precision, hence the need for a range of times.

I agree. That's why I prefer my own timing of the walk which was 12,5 minutes. If Oswald was on 10th street at 1:08 (which computes with Markham's arrival, after walking one block), then he must have left the rooming house at 12:56 at the latest. I don't believe that happened.

[Martin Weidmann]

The timeline is relevant only if there is any actual doubt that Oswald was at the Tippit scene when he was murdered.  It alone doesn't create doubt if we otherwise have sufficient evidence that Oswald was there.  That is like trying to convince someone holding a winning lottery ticket in their hand that the odds against them winning are so high that it couldn't happen.  Once a thing happens, the odds against it happening, no matter how improbable, are no longer relevant.   However short you think that timeframe is for Oswald to get to the scene, the evidence confirms he was there.  Multiple witnesses, the pistol, the ammo link Oswald to the crime.  There is no doubt Oswald was there even if you falsely believe he had to strap a jet engine to back to arrive in time.  Endless pedantic nitpicking and subjective bias in a desperate attempt to create doubt doesn't change the evidence of Oswald's guilt.

However short you think that timeframe is for Oswald to get to the scene, the evidence confirms he was there.  Multiple witnesses, the pistol, the ammo link Oswald to the crime.

You are free to believe whatever you want even if your subjective bias blinds you from the real problems with the evidence.

[Martin Weidmann]

The LN timeline is that Oswald walked at a brisk pace from his rooming house to the Tippit site in about 11 minutes. However if he ran, which is very possible through the quiet back streets of Oak Cliff, then Oswald could have got to the site in plenty time to shoot Tippit.

CTers can't prove LHO didn't run to the Tippit site. LNers only have to create a case that it is possible that he ran there. They don't have to PROVE he ran there.

They don't have to PROVE he ran there.

True, they have to show beyond doubt that he actually was there.

[Jerry Freeman]

They're learning, slowly.
Get off your high horse! The truck carrying your ego is delayed!

The truck fleet carrying his ego is delayed!
 There... fixed for you 

[Richard Smith]

However short you think that timeframe is for Oswald to get to the scene, the evidence confirms he was there.  Multiple witnesses, the pistol, the ammo link Oswald to the crime.

You are free to believe whatever you want even if your subjective bias blinds you from the real problems with the evidence.

The only "problem" here is that you cannot discern the difference between information and knowledge.  The evidence links Oswald to the Tippit killing beyond any reasonable doubt.  That implicitly means he had time to reach the Tippit scene even if we cannot reconstruct the timeline almost 60 years later with pedantic scientific precision.  There can't be doubt about Oswald's ability to reach the scene if the evidence is conclusive that he was there.  No matter how much you beat it to death in a desperate attempt to create false doubt.  The thing speaks for itself.     

[Martin Weidmann]

The only "problem" here is that you cannot discern the difference between information and knowledge.  The evidence links Oswald to the Tippit killing beyond any reasonable doubt.  That implicitly means he had time to reach the Tippit scene even if we cannot reconstruct the timeline almost 60 years later with pedantic scientific precision.  There can't be doubt about Oswald's ability to reach the scene if the evidence is conclusive that he was there.  No matter how much you beat it to death in a desperate attempt to create false doubt.  The thing speaks for itself.   

The evidence links Oswald to the Tippit killing beyond any reasonable doubt.

If you say so.... oh wait, you don't really think I am just going to take your word for it, do you?

There can't be doubt about Oswald's ability to reach the scene if the evidence is conclusive that he was there.

There can't be any doubt that you actually believe that the evidence is conclusive, that's for sure.
Just too bad that you fail time after time in presenting that "conclusive" evidence and in turn constantly present assumptions and speculation.

[Dan O'meara]

I most certainly do not accept that it is "impossible" for Oswald to be around 10th and Patton for the timeline you are presenting.

I did not say that it was impossible for him to be there. I said it was impossible for him to get there on time on foot. There is a difference.

Agreed, I was assuming he made it on foot but didn't specify.

This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:57 PM.
Is that also impossible?

This has Oswald leaving the house at 12:58 PM.
Is that impossible?

Yes on both counts IMO

How is it "impossible" that Oswald left the house at 12:58 PM
This seems like quite an extreme statement (IMO)
You must have a really good, solid reason for believing it's "impossible", particularly when you have no idea of the speed Oswald was moving. Roberts gives the distinct impression he was in a big hurry - "all but running".
According to Google Maps the distance between Oswald's rooming house and 10th and Patton is 0.8 miles.
At the not impossible speed of 6mph this distance can be covered in 8 minutes
At 5mph it can be covered in less than 10 minutes.
These are not impossible parameters

And what if Oswald only needs to be there 30 seconds beforehand, at 1:09 PM

merely 30 seconds?

Markham said she watched him crossing Patton and walking to the location of the shooting. That distance alone (from Patton to where Tippit stopped him) took - according to a video posted by Bill Brown - around 30 seconds to walk. Remember Benavides who waited in his truck for an estimated 45 seconds until the killer disappeared on Patton?

And then there was the interaction with Tippit, before Tippit got out of the car and was shot. How long do you think that took?

Fair enough.
One minute seems a more reasonable estimate.

These things can't be known with exact precision, hence the need for a range of times.

I agree. That's why I prefer my own timing of the walk which was 12,5 minutes. If Oswald was on 10th street at 1:08 (which computes with Markham's arrival, after walking one block), then he must have left the rooming house at 12:56 at the latest. I don't believe that happened.

That's not a range of possibilities.
That's just you deciding what it is.