Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

This is a snapshot of a Google maps walking route from 1026 North Beckley Avenue to 401 East 10th Street:



It shows the walking distance to be 0.8 miles.
At a normal walking rate of 3mph this distance can be covered in 16 minutes
At a brisk walking rate of 4mph this distance can be covered in 12 minutes
At a jog of 6mph this distance can be covered in 8 minutes
These figures are not up for dispute. They are facts.

To imagine that a young, fit man like Oswald, who was trained in the Marines, couldn't make this distance in 8 minutes is baffling.
To imagine he couldn't do it in 10 minutes is incomprehensible. Unless there is an underlying medical condition Oswald was suffering from that I've yet to come across.
As far as I'm concerned there is no reason to believe Oswald could not have made the distance in 8 minutes and even less if he really pushed himself. I'm not saying he did do that. I'm saying I'm perplexed at inability to accept that he could do that.

2 comments;

The route in your map is wrong, because you have Oswald walking down Patton towards 10th street. Had he walked that way he would have been behind Markham, walking down Patton towards Jefferson.

And it is of little significance what you believe Oswald could or could not have done. In a car it would have taken him perhaps three minutes to get there, but there is no evidence for him using a car or him jogging. So, what's the point of accepting something that can not be substantiated? Like Jerry, I also walked the distance so years ago and my walking speed was pretty fast back then, yet I couldn't walk the fastest route in less than 12 minutes. There hasn't been any time trial that resulted in less time.

Once again, you are calling your own speculation "a fact" and ignore the basic truth that with enough speculation and assumptions you can get anybody to do anything, whether it's realistic or not.

Now, here's a question for you; can you provide one plausible reason for Oswald to run or jog from the rooming house to 10th street, instead of getting on a bus in front of the rooming house?

[Dan O'meara]

2 comments;

The route in your map is wrong, because you have Oswald walking down Patton towards 10th street. Had he walked that way he would have been behind Markham, walking down Patton towards Jefferson.

And it is of little significance what you believe Oswald could or could not have done. In a car it would have taken him perhaps three minutes to get there, but there is no evidence for him using a car or him jogging. Like Jerry, I also walked the distance so years ago and my walking speed was pretty fast back then, yet I couldn't walk the fastest route in less than 12 minutes. There hasn't been any time trial that resulted in less time.

Once again, you are calling your own speculation "a fact" and ignore the basic truth that with enough speculation and assumptions you can get anybody to do anything, whether it's realistic or not.

Now, here's a question for you; can you provide one plausible reason for Oswald to run or jog from the rooming house to 10th street, instead of getting on a bus in front of the rooming house?

"Once again, you are calling your own speculation "a fact" "

Where have I called my own speculation a "fact"?
I'll save you the time, I haven't done that, it's just your inability to read the simplest text rearing it's ugly head again.
Just spend a few minutes going over what you are reading, then put your brain in gear.
The figures I gave for how long it takes to cover a certain distance at a certain speed are mathematical facts. Get to grips with that.

As for the route shown, it's impossible to show a route turning left onto 10th from Crawford as part of 10th has been built over nowadays. It was just to highlight the distance from Oswald's rooming house to the scene of the Tippit shooting - which is 0.8 miles, as I'm sure you'd agree.

As for you waddling the route in 12 minutes, top speed, well...who cares? It means nothing.
That distance can be covered in 12 minutes moving at 4mph (mathematical fact)
Can't you move faster than 4mph?

"In a car it would have taken him perhaps three minutes to get there"

 
Ground control to Major Tom...

"Now, here's a question for you; can you provide one plausible reason for Oswald to run or jog from the rooming house to 10th street, instead of getting on a bus in front of the rooming house?"

He didn't know when the bus was coming and he only had a short window of opportunity to get to Marsalis and Jefferson.
How difficult was that?
How much brain power was required to overcome that mighty obstacle?

Now here's one for you - can you provide one plausible explanation for why Oswald asked for the cab to drop him at 500 block but got out near Neely Street, way past his actual address but before the destination he requested?

This should be good.
And remember to read the post thoroughly before responding.

[Martin Weidmann]

"Once again, you are calling your own speculation "a fact" "

Where have I called my own speculation a "fact"?
I'll save you the time, I haven't done that, it's just your inability to read the simplest text rearing it's ugly head again.
Just spend a few minutes going over what you are reading, then put your brain in gear.
The figures I gave for how long it takes to cover a certain distance at a certain speed are mathematical facts. Get to grips with that.

As for the route shown, it's impossible to show a route turning left onto 10th from Crawford as part of 10th has been built over nowadays. It was just to highlight the distance from Oswald's rooming house to the scene of the Tippit shooting - which is 0.8 miles, as I'm sure you'd agree.

As for you waddling the route in 12 minutes, top speed, well...who cares? It means nothing.
That distance can be covered in 12 minutes moving at 4mph (mathematical fact)
Can't you move faster than 4mph?

"In a car it would have taken him perhaps three minutes to get there"

 
Ground control to Major Tom...

"Now, here's a question for you; can you provide one plausible reason for Oswald to run or jog from the rooming house to 10th street, instead of getting on a bus in front of the rooming house?"

He didn't know when the bus was coming and he only had a short window of opportunity to get to Marsalis and Jefferson.
How difficult was that?
How much brain power was required to overcome that mighty obstacle?

Now here's one for you - can you provide one plausible explanation for why Oswald asked for the cab to drop him at 500 block but got out near Neely Street, way past his actual address but before the destination he requested?

This should be good.
And remember to read the post thoroughly before responding.

Why should I even bother to reply to your patronizing BS?

As for you waddling the route in 12 minutes, top speed, well...who cares? It means nothing.
That distance can be covered in 12 minutes moving at 4mph (mathematical fact)
Can't you move faster than 4mph?

Of course it means nothing to you, because it doesn't fit in your narrative. And who said anything about "top speed"?

There hasn't been a single time trial that has shown that, at normal walking speed, the distance between the rooming house and 10th street takes less than 12 minutes. Your mathematical fact doesn't alter that one bit. Now, you can speculate all you want about how fast Oswald was running (without being noticed by anyone) but that would be just as silly - and this went clearly over your head - as claiming he drove there by car.... back to you, ground control.

But since you like mathematics so much, here's something for you to consider; Roberts said that she received a phone call from a friend who told her Kennedy had been killed and that she should turn on the television. The news of Kennedy's death was announced just after 1 PM. Oswald entered the rooming house when Roberts was trying to get the television to work. She already had the sound but not a good picture. This justifies the conclusion that Oswald did not enter the rooming house before 1 PM. If he only was in his room for 2 minutes, he would be back outside at 1:02 at the earliest.

Tippit's killer was seen walking (not running!) down 10th street by Markham at least one minute (but likely longer) before the shooting. You have agreed that my time line shows that Tippit was killed at 1:09, which means that Markham must have seen the killer walking down the street at 1:08 or even a bit earlier.

That leaves only six minutes at best between Oswald's departure from the rooming house and Markham's sighting of the killer. Can your mathematical brain figure out how Oswald could have (your words) jogged there in 8 minutes and still be on time to kill Tippit?

"Now, here's a question for you; can you provide one plausible reason for Oswald to run or jog from the rooming house to 10th street, instead of getting on a bus in front of the rooming house?"

He didn't know when the bus was coming and he only had a short window of opportunity to get to Marsalis and Jefferson.
How difficult was that?
How much brain power was required to overcome that mighty obstacle?

Even if he was running to Marsalis and Jefferson (which is only speculation on your part), there was no need or reason for him to be at 10th street. And that's what I asked you, but your  brain power didn't understand that, did it now?

Walking on 10th street towards Denver street has him walking parallel with Jefferson, when, from Davis street, he should have been going south to Jefferson, on either Crawford or Patton and turn left on Jefferson. There was absolutely no need for him to be anywhere near 10th street.

Now here's one for you - can you provide one plausible explanation for why Oswald asked for the cab to drop him at 500 block but got out near Neely Street, way past his actual address but before the destination he requested?

This should be good.
And remember to read the post thoroughly before responding.

If that's what actually happened, the answer is; no I can't. The difference between you and me is that you seem to believe that you know what other people do and for what reason and I don't. People do silly things that don't make sense to others all the time.

[Richard Smith]

Walking on 10th street towards Denver street has him walking parallel with Jefferson, when, from Davis street, he should have been going south to Jefferson, on either Crawford or Patton and turn left on Jefferson. There was absolutely no need for him to be anywhere near 10th street.

If that's what actually happened, the answer is; no I can't. The difference between you and me is that you seem to believe that you know what other people do and for what reason and I don't. People do silly things that don't make sense to others all the time.

To summarize.  No one knows Oswald's exact route.  No one knows whether he walked, ran, got a ride or strapped a jet engine on his back.  What is known beyond any doubt - as confirmed by multiple witnesses and the evidence - is that Oswald was at the scene of the Tippit murder.  Applying basic common sense to that fact then informs us that if Oswald was at the scene, then he had time to get there regardless of the pedantic nitpicking of a contrarian.  Rendering all the attempts to conjure up false doubt about the timeline no longer relevant.

[Martin Weidmann]

To summarize.  No one knows Oswald's exact route.  No one knows whether he walked, ran, got a ride or strapped a jet engine on his back.  What is known beyond any doubt - as confirmed by multiple witnesses and the evidence - is that Oswald was at the scene of the Tippit murder.  Applying basic common sense to that fact then informs us that if Oswald was at the scene, then he had time to get there regardless of the pedantic nitpicking of a contrarian.  Rendering all the attempts to conjure up false doubt about the timeline no longer relevant.

No one knows Oswald's exact route.

Even worse. No one knows if Oswald did in fact walk the distance at all. It is just assumed that he did.

What is known beyond any doubt - as confirmed by multiple witnesses and the evidence - is that Oswald was at the scene of the Tippit murder.

Beyond any doubt? Really?

Applying basic common sense to that fact then informs us that if Oswald was at the scene, then he had time to get there regardless of the pedantic nitpicking of a contrarian.

Circular logic!

Common sense is a poor substitute for actual evidence. But if you want to play that game, how about the other side of the same coin;

If Oswald couldn't physically be at 10th street when Tippit was killed, because he simply did not have enough time to get there, then common sense should tell you that the witnesses (the least reliable evidence there is, to begin with) are simply wrong.

See how easy it is.....

The events of that day only happened in one way, which means that it isn't enough to just say Oswald had time to get there. Prove it...... but you won't, because you can't!

[Dan O'meara]

Why should I even bother to reply to your patronizing BS?

Of course it means nothing to you, because it doesn't fit in your narrative. And who said anything about "top speed"?

There hasn't been a single time trial that has shown that, at normal walking speed, the distance between the rooming house and 10th street takes less than 12 minutes. Your mathematical fact doesn't alter that one bit. Now, you can speculate all you want about how fast Oswald was running (without being noticed by anyone) but that would be just as silly - and this went clearly over your head - as claiming he drove there by car.... back to you, ground control.

But since you like mathematics so much, here's something for you to consider; Roberts said that she received a phone call from a friend who told her Kennedy had been killed and that she should turn on the television. The news of Kennedy's death was announced just after 1 PM. Oswald entered the rooming house when Roberts was trying to get the television to work. She already had the sound but not a good picture. This justifies the conclusion that Oswald did not enter the rooming house before 1 PM. If he only was in his room for 2 minutes, he would be back outside at 1:02 at the earliest.

Tippit's killer was seen walking (not running!) down 10th street by Markham at least one minute (but likely longer) before the shooting. You have agreed that my time line shows that Tippit was killed at 1:09, which means that Markham must have seen the killer walking down the street at 1:08 or even a bit earlier.

That leaves only six minutes at best between Oswald's departure from the rooming house and Markham's sighting of the killer. Can your mathematical brain figure out how Oswald could have (your words) jogged there in 8 minutes and still be on time to kill Tippit?

Even if he was running to Marsalis and Jefferson (which is only speculation on your part), there was no need or reason for him to be at 10th street. And that's what I asked you, but your  brain power didn't understand that, did it now?

Walking on 10th street towards Denver street has him walking parallel with Jefferson, when, from Davis street, he should have been going south to Jefferson, on either Crawford or Patton and turn left on Jefferson. There was absolutely no need for him to be anywhere near 10th street.

If that's what actually happened, the answer is; no I can't. The difference between you and me is that you seem to believe that you know what other people do and for what reason and I don't. People do silly things that don't make sense to others all the time.

"But since you like mathematics so much, here's something for you to consider; Roberts said that she received a phone call from a friend who told her Kennedy had been killed and that she should turn on the television. The news of Kennedy's death was announced just after 1 PM. Oswald entered the rooming house when Roberts was trying to get the television to work. She already had the sound but not a good picture. This justifies the conclusion that Oswald did not enter the rooming house before 1 PM. If he only was in his room for 2 minutes, he would be back outside at 1:02 at the earliest."

This is absolutely key to your argument about how Oswald couldn't get to the scene of the shooting in the allotted time.
I've already corrected you on this once but, as it doesn't serve your entrenched and highly bias view of things, you just ignore it and move on.
In the clip below (that you posted) at 4:37, Roberts begins to explain things from the moment she turned on the TV (presumably after her friend called)

She describes that a program called "As The World Turns" was on when suddenly a bulletin cut in about the assassination.
The bulletin Roberts is describing was at 12:40 PM.
She describes how she was then trying to find out more news about the assassination when Oswald came in.
Your notion that Roberts heard the news at 1:00 PM has been proven to be false (again) and I hope this time you don't resort to making up eye-witness testimony as you did last time. A truly underhand move.
ASSUMPTION - The 1:00 PM news hadn't come on yet otherwise Roberts wouldn't be searching the channels for more news. Her statement in the clip above all but proves Oswald came in between 12:40 PM and 1:00 PM.
Roberts heard the news of the assassination at 12:40 PM. Not 1:00 PM as your doomed argument requires.

But wait on. There's always Roberts' testimony:

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say

Testimony I know you view as solid gold when it comes to confirmation of the time - because it was after JFK was shot!!
Followed up by "what time I wouldn't want to say". Well I'm sold 

I know it is a complete waste of time posting this as far as you're concerned but others might be interested.

"There hasn't been a single time trial that has shown that, at normal walking speed, the distance between the rooming house and 10th street takes less than 12 minutes."


Normal walking speed  Who cares about normal walking speed?
What about on-the-run from the law speed?
Or got-to-get to-the-transfer-point by 1:15 PM speed?

[Dan O'meara]

Hate to break it to you: It wasn't Oswald in the cab.

You seem completely lost at the moment.

And you KNOW Oswald didn't know the timetable for the bus passing his rooming house?

"Hate to break it to you: It wasn't Oswald in the cab."

Really Otto? And who was it then?
Let me guess - you don't know.

[Martin Weidmann]

"But since you like mathematics so much, here's something for you to consider; Roberts said that she received a phone call from a friend who told her Kennedy had been killed and that she should turn on the television. The news of Kennedy's death was announced just after 1 PM. Oswald entered the rooming house when Roberts was trying to get the television to work. She already had the sound but not a good picture. This justifies the conclusion that Oswald did not enter the rooming house before 1 PM. If he only was in his room for 2 minutes, he would be back outside at 1:02 at the earliest."

This is absolutely key to your argument about how Oswald couldn't get to the scene of the shooting in the allotted time.
I've already corrected you on this once but, as it doesn't serve your entrenched and highly bias view of things, you just ignore it and move on.
In the clip below (that you posted) at 4:37, Roberts begins to explain things from the moment she turned on the TV (presumably after her friend called)

She describes that a program called "As The World Turns" was on when suddenly a bulletin cut in about the assassination.
The bulletin Roberts is describing was at 12:40 PM.
She describes how she was then trying to find out more news about the assassination when Oswald came in.
Your notion that Roberts heard the news at 1:00 PM has been proven to be false (again) and I hope this time you don't resort to making up eye-witness testimony as you did last time. A truly underhand move.
ASSUMPTION - The 1:00 PM news hadn't come on yet otherwise Roberts wouldn't be searching the channels for more news. Her statement in the clip above all but proves Oswald came in between 12:40 PM and 1:00 PM.
Roberts heard the news of the assassination at 12:40 PM. Not 1:00 PM as your doomed argument requires.

But wait on. There's always Roberts' testimony:

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say

Testimony I know you view as solid gold when it comes to confirmation of the time - because it was after JFK was shot!!
Followed up by "what time I wouldn't want to say". Well I'm sold 

I know it is a complete waste of time posting this as far as you're concerned but others might be interested.

"There hasn't been a single time trial that has shown that, at normal walking speed, the distance between the rooming house and 10th street takes less than 12 minutes."


Normal walking speed  Who cares about normal walking speed?
What about on-the-run from the law speed?
Or got-to-get to-the-transfer-point by 1:15 PM speed?

In the clip below (that you posted) at 4:37, Roberts begins to explain things from the moment she turned on the TV (presumably after her friend called). She describes how she was then trying to find out more news about the assassination when Oswald came in.

What an amazing display of total ignorance combined with cherry picking the evidence you like. Yes, Roberts does say that she was watching "As the world turns" when, at 12:40, a special bulletin came on about shots being fired at the President and that the first reports say that Kennedy had been seriously wounded.

The problem with this is that the bulletin was the first news broadcast about the shooting and it said nothing about Kennedy being killed. You can presume all you want that this bulletin was broadcast after her friend called, but that simply does not match the facts. For a start, if this was the first news broadcast about the shooting, how could the friend even have known there had been a shooting. Secondly, the friend told Roberts that Kennedy had been killed and that news was not made public until 1 PM. In the video below she says that she turned to television on after her friend told her Kennedy had been killed.

And she confirms the sequence of events in her testimony.

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot," and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said "What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he come in

So, Roberts' comment that she turned the television on after her friend called is indeed strange, if the television had been on the whole time. However, she said it twice and in her testimony she does not mention "As the world turns" or the special bulletin at all, which leaves open the possibility that that story was nothing more than an embellishment of her story for the media. This seems to be classic Roberts as described by her employer, Mrs. Johnson, making up stories as she goes along.

But ignoring/dismissing that information is not even half of your mistake, because at 5.12 in the video you have posted Roberts also says that it must have been after one o'clock when Oswald came in. And, as you've have pointed out, she also said the same thing in her testimony.

ASSUMPTION - The 1:00 PM news hadn't come on yet otherwise Roberts wouldn't be searching the channels for more news. Her statement in the clip above all but proves Oswald came in between 12:40 PM and 1:00 PM.

Except it doesn't. Not even close. The apparent contradiction in Roberts' statements about when she turned the television on is what you are trying to exploit for your bogus argument to push back the time of Oswald's entry at the rooming house which has the sole purpose (just like the jacket fairytale you came up with) to keep Oswald in play as Tippit's killer.

But what blows your entire theory straight out of the water is the documented time Oswald needed to get from the TSBD to the rooming house. There is no way that Oswald could have entered the rooming house when Roberts - as you claim - turned on the television at 12:40. And there is no way he could have come in at - let's say 12:50 or 12:55 - either because then he wouldn't be coming in when Roberts was turning on the television, as she said he did.

Roberts testimony is clear as day on that point; Oswald came in as she was turning on the television. In your version that would be at 12:40, and in Roberts' version at 1 PM. There is no way Oswald could be at the rooming house at 12:40.... need help to figure out the rest?

Roberts heard the news of the assassination at 12:40 PM. Not 1:00 PM as your doomed argument requires.

My argument does not require that Roberts heard the news about the assassination at 1 PM.

I know it is a complete waste of time posting this as far as you're concerned but others might be interested.

You claim to know what Oswald was thinking, what witnesses were thinking and now you even believe you know what I am thinking. That's one hell of a delusion.

"There hasn't been a single time trial that has shown that, at normal walking speed, the distance between the rooming house and 10th street takes less than 12 minutes."


Normal walking speed  Who cares about normal walking speed?
What about on-the-run from the law speed?
Or got-to-get to-the-transfer-point by 1:15 PM speed?

The only speed you seem to be interested in is the one that gets Oswald to 10th street in time to kill Tippit. You are not looking at the facts in this case, you are twisting and turning to create your own set of "facts" with an already predetermined outcome.