Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Walt Cakebread]

Ironic and interesting at the same time as it shows clearly that Mytton wil go any length to make even the most invaluable point rather than dealing with the factual information he doesn't like.

He's giving us some estimates from people saying 1:00 PM or just thereafter and some of people who say 1:30 PM. He doing so in a vain attempt to create confusion, as he is very well aware that the WC narrative estimates the killing of Tippit at around 1:15 PM, which obviously means that even the WC did not take the 1:30 PM estimates even remotely serious. Even less so, as they also conflict with the (according to the transcripts) 1:16 PM radio call the DPD dispatcher made and the elusive (as in never produced) time stamped card of the funeral home allegedly showing the departure of the ambulance at 1:18 PM.

So, even by the standards of the WC and just about all the LNs, including Mytton himself, any time estimate after 1:16 PM for Tippit's shooting must obviously be erroneous, as the Methodist Hospital and Davenport both confirm that at 1:30 PM a bullet was being removed from Tippit's body!

As for the estimates that say 1:00 PM, the same applies. Mytton obviously doesn't take those serious as his WC bible tells him that, according to Earlene Roberts, Oswald was still at the roominghouse on Beckley.

And that really only leaves the two estimates by Markham and Bowley;

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

BOWLEY I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm.

which come close to the actual time of the shooting.

So all Johnny is trying to do is muddy the waters without actually presenting anything of value or significance to the discussion.

And finally, a word about Scoggings;

Btw The person who had the most reason to be aware of the time is Scoggins who was on his lunch break and if he was anything like me, "the time on your lunch break feels like 10 x the time of actually working" so Scoggins who looked for parking, left the cab, went to buy his lunch, watched the telly "I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" then went back to his cab, would have to be reasonably aware of the time he had left and his 1:20 guess is near perfect. Scoggins wins!

Scoggins actually wasn't aware of the time. Anybody who reads Scoggins testimony will find that he got his time wrong. In his testimony he said he picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approx 12:35 and he discharged him at 321 North Ewing at 1:00. 

Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately 12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.

However, that trip is only 9,9 miles and, depending on how one drives, doesn't take anymore than 16 to max. 20 minutes. In other words, he got to North Ewing at 12:55 or even earlier. He then goes on to say that he went to the Gentlemen's Club he believed to be at 125 Patton, which is only a 2 to 3 minutes drive. I know, Johnny doesn't like this kind of deductive reasoning, but for those without a bias, it's obvious that Scoggins really must have arrived at the Club just before 1:00 PM.

Then it gets really dodgy for John, because Scoggins himself can't even say for sure just how long he was at the club before returning to his car. It could have been 5, 10 or 20 minutes.... making his estimate of no value whatsoever....

But then, it's really the only thing Johnny has to hold on, so he goes with Scoggins estimate at 1:20 being "near perfect" when it really isn't. In fact it's actually some five minutes after the WC bible tells him Tippit was shot.

So much for Johnny's "research" and arguments....

Mytton's posts are not worth reading......Just as V. Bugliosi  Book is a waste of time. ....   neither Bugs nor Mytton work with factual information.  ( Bugilosi's book can be bought for less than the price of a cheap fiction paper back.....  Cheap fiction...... 

[Jerry Freeman]

No I wasn’t. It says “place of death: Methodist Hospital”, so “time of death” refers to being pronounced dead at the hospital.

Also..what about this? I am still looking for the complete certificate that was made at the funeral home that the ambulance took him to. Tippit was actually pronounced dead there. The ODIAs are still trying to shove 15 minutes of time into a 5 minute sack
 

 

[Jerry Freeman]

Why have a half dozen threads open on the same subject? Also... why change the subject after it's posted?

[Martin Weidmann]

Also..what about this? I am still looking for the complete certificate that was made at the funeral home that the ambulance took him to. Tippit was actually pronounced dead there. The ODIAs are still trying to shove 15 minutes of time into a 5 minute sack
 

Jerry,

Tippit was declared DOA at the Methodist Hopistal at 1:15.

The ambulance that transported him to the hospital was from a funeral home on Jefferson.

The ODIAs are still trying to shove 15 minutes of time into a 5 minute sack

Agreed, and they will continue to do so, regardless of what the actual evidence says.

[Bill Brown]

Also..what about this? I am still looking for the complete certificate that was made at the funeral home that the ambulance took him to. Tippit was actually pronounced dead there. The ODIAs are still trying to shove 15 minutes of time into a 5 minute sack
 

I am still looking for the complete certificate that was made at the funeral home that the ambulance took him to. Tippit was actually pronounced dead there.

What are you talking about?

[John Mytton]

Ironic and interesting at the same time as it shows clearly that Mytton wil go any length to make even the most invaluable point rather than dealing with the factual information he doesn't like.

He's giving us some estimates from people saying 1:00 PM or just thereafter and some of people who say 1:30 PM. He doing so in a vain attempt to create confusion, as he is very well aware that the WC narrative estimates the killing of Tippit at around 1:15 PM, which obviously means that even the WC did not take the 1:30 PM estimates even remotely serious. Even less so, as they also conflict with the (according to the transcripts) 1:16 PM radio call the DPD dispatcher made and the elusive (as in never produced) time stamped card of the funeral home allegedly showing the departure of the ambulance at 1:18 PM.

So, even by the standards of the WC and just about all the LNs, including Mytton himself, any time estimate after 1:16 PM for Tippit's shooting must obviously be erroneous, as the Methodist Hospital and Davenport both confirm that at 1:30 PM a bullet was being removed from Tippit's body!

As for the estimates that say 1:00 PM, the same applies. Mytton obviously doesn't take those serious as his WC bible tells him that, according to Earlene Roberts, Oswald was still at the roominghouse on Beckley.

And that really only leaves the two estimates by Markham and Bowley;

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

BOWLEY I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm.

which come close to the actual time of the shooting.

So all Johnny is trying to do is muddy the waters without actually presenting anything of value or significance to the discussion.

And finally, a word about Scoggings;

Btw The person who had the most reason to be aware of the time is Scoggins who was on his lunch break and if he was anything like me, "the time on your lunch break feels like 10 x the time of actually working" so Scoggins who looked for parking, left the cab, went to buy his lunch, watched the telly "I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" then went back to his cab, would have to be reasonably aware of the time he had left and his 1:20 guess is near perfect. Scoggins wins!

Scoggins actually wasn't aware of the time. Anybody who reads Scoggins testimony will find that he got his time wrong. In his testimony he said he picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approx 12:35 and he discharged him at 321 North Ewing at 1:00. 

Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately 12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.

However, that trip is only 9,9 miles and, depending on how one drives, doesn't take anymore than 16 to max. 20 minutes. In other words, he got to North Ewing at 12:55 or even earlier. He then goes on to say that he went to the Gentlemen's Club he believed to be at 125 Patton, which is only a 2 to 3 minutes drive. I know, Johnny doesn't like this kind of deductive reasoning, but for those without a bias, it's obvious that Scoggins really must have arrived at the Club just before 1:00 PM.

Then it gets really dodgy for John, because Scoggins himself can't even say for sure just how long he was at the club before returning to his car. It could have been 5, 10 or 20 minutes.... making his estimate of no value whatsoever....

But then, it's really the only thing Johnny has to hold on, so he goes with Scoggins estimate at 1:20 being "near perfect" when it really isn't. In fact it's actually some five minutes after the WC bible tells him Tippit was shot.

So much for Johnny's "research" and arguments....

Whenever you're struggling out comes a wall of words as if more words are going to save you.

Ironic and interesting at the same time as it shows clearly that Mytton wil go any length to make even the most invaluable point rather than dealing with the factual information he doesn't like.

Typical circle logic from Weidmann, take a small handful of cherry picked eyewitnesses, and again manipulate it so Saint Oswald can be innocent whereas the intelligent researchers like the majority of LNers look at the entire picture and evaluate ALL the evidence. Just look at Markham, you ridicule her for her Positive Identification of Lee Harvey Oswald being the cold blooded murderer of J.D.Tippit and her subsequent grilling by the WC, yet you use her time guesses as Gospel and let's face it, you don't trust the official Police time to be accurate so what chance does a "screwball" have? Your own interpretation and the way you evaluate the evidence destroys you and makes you look the Fool.

As for the estimates that say 1:00 PM, the same applies. Mytton obviously doesn't take those serious as his WC bible tells him that, according to Earlene Roberts, Oswald was still at the roominghouse on Beckley.

Like ALL the others her time was a guess, she was watching the TV and trying to learn about her President, so Oswald at that precise time would be just another bug on the wall.

And that really only leaves the two estimates by Markham and Bowley;

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

BOWLEY I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm.

Here we go, your cherry picked eyewitnesses one whose watch was never tested and the other "screwball" was making a "bet" on what time it was? WTF?, Absolutely Pathetic!.

And finally, a word about Scoggings;

Here we go again, the self serving assumption flight has reached maximum altitude, your using of google maps to estimate a cars travelling time is completely pointless and doesn't take into account 55 years of changes. Your 16 minute time is based on a specifically built Toll road, was that there in 1963? And you don't seem to remember that there was just a small event at Love Field.

Then it gets really dodgy for John, because Scoggins himself can't even say for sure just how long he was at the club before returning to his car. It could have been 5, 10 or 20 minutes.... making his estimate of no value whatsoever....

You liar, Scoggins says "I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" just like all the others the President was just shot and people were in a state of shock. Anyway looking at Scoggins, his time guess is within a 5 minute range and his Tippit guess was just 5 minutes off, go figure.

Weidmann, if you want to present a successful argument, remember what you have said in the past because it's going to come back and bite you on the arse.

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Also..what about this? I am still looking for the complete certificate that was made at the funeral home that the ambulance took him to. Tippit was actually pronounced dead there. The ODIAs are still trying to shove 15 minutes of time into a 5 minute sack
 

Thanks Jerry but unfortunately for you, you've proved the opposite of what you think. Your Methodist recollection states that were trying to bring Tippit back to life, so Tippit must be already dead when he arrived therefore the time of death happened at an earlier time. And the doctors established that the time of death was when he was shot and died instantly at 1:15.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Whenever you're struggling out comes a wall of words as if more words are going to save you.

This case involves a massive amount of information, yet you prefer to deal with it telegram style?

Typical circle logic from Weidmann, take a small handful of cherry picked eyewitnesses, and again manipulate it so Saint Oswald can be innocent whereas the intelligent researchers like the majority of LNers look at the entire picture and evaluate ALL the evidence. Just look at Markham, you ridicule her for her Positive Identification of Lee Harvey Oswald being the cold blooded murderer of J.D.Tippit and her subsequent grilling by the WC, yet you use her time guesses as Gospel and let's face it, you don't trust the official Police time to be accurate so what chance does a "screwball" have? Your own interpretation and the way you evaluate of the evidence destroys you and makes you look the Fool.

take a small handful of cherry picked eyewitnesses, and again manipulate it

Hang on, that's what the WC did....

the intelligent researchers like the majority of LNers look at the entire picture and evaluate ALL the evidence.

You are cracking me up... Let's just wait and see where you go with this......

Like ALL the others her time was a guess, she was watching the TV and trying to learn about her President, so Oswald at that precise time would be just another bug on the wall.

Indeed. You've just destroyed any credibility Earleen Roberts ever had.  And by doing so you have proven the point I was making!

Ironic and interesting at the same time as it shows clearly that Mytton wil go any length to make even the most worthless point rather than dealing with the factual information he doesn't like.

You will throw anybody under the bus if it somehow serves your purpose, right John?

Here we go, your cherry picked eyewitnesses one whose watch was never tested and the other "screwball" was making a "bet" on what time it was? WTF?, Absolutely Pathetic!.

Oh boy, whatever happened to "we look at all the evidence"? Dismissing evidence you don't like outright is really your thing, isn't it Johnny? 

Let's try to go baby steps here; John, do you agree that Bowley arrived at 10th/Patton after Markham saw Tippit being shot?

Here we go again, the self serving assumption flight has reached maximum altitude, your using of google maps to estimate a cars travelling time is completely pointless and doesn't take into account 55 years of changes. Your 16 minute time is based on a specifically built Toll road, was that there in 1963? And you don't seem to remember that there was just a small event at Love Field.

Now who is the one assuming stuff?

Me using google maps = assumption and wrong, as I actually drove the distance during my last visit to Dallas!

the 16 minute time is based on a specifically toll road = assumption, I never said anything about the route I drove

And the small event at Love Field was over when Scoggings picked up his client at 12:35.

You liar, Scoggins says "I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" just like all the others the President was just shot and people were in a state of shock. Anyway looking at Scoggins, his time guess is within a 5 minute range and his Tippit guess was just 5 minutes off, go figure.

Scoggins did indeed say 10,12,15 minutes, but when I said "it could have been 5, 10 or 15 minutes" I wasn't quoting him. I was talking about him not being able to say how long he was at the club. Not that it matters much. It still shows that Scoggins wasn't sure at all about the times!

Btw, his Tippit guess was only "just 5 minutes off" if you believe Tippit was shot at 1.15 and if you assume that Scoggins did indeed arrive at the Club at the time he estimated. That's looking for "evidence" in support of a predetermined conclusion!

Weidmann, if you want to present a successful argument, remember what you have said in the past because it's going to come back and bite you on the arse.

JohnM

First of all, you are a die hard LN fanatic who will never ever be able to accept any argument that does not agree with your own opinion. Even if Tippit could come back from the grave and tell you somebody else killed him, I have no doubt you will instantly call him a liar. That's your nature... an arrogant know it all.

Btw, you haven't mentioned anything I have said in the past. In fact, I have no clue what you are going on about, but then jibberish is frequently your choice of language!

Now, let's get back to what you said earlier;

the intelligent researchers like the majority of LNers look at the entire picture and evaluate ALL the evidence.

So, why did you fail completely to look at the entire picture I presented in the Markham/Bowley/Methodist Hospital/Davenport timeline? Let me guess, it's far easier to dismiss everything by claiming it were all estimates, whilst at the same time rather hypocritically blindly accepting Scroggins flawed time estimates.

You look at the entire picture alright.....