The Limo Bullet Fragments....

[Andrew Mason]

So you also accept what she said about the motorcade stopping dead still, Andrew?

Her statement about smelling gunpowder is independent of her observation that the motorcade stopped.  At least three others reported smelling gunpowder after the shooting.  Sen. Yarborough, Tom Dillard, and Virgie Rachley.

Dillard was familiar with rifles and said this (6H165):

Mr. DILLARD. ...
I might add that I very definitely smelled gun powder when the car moved up at the corner.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mr. DILLARD. I very definitely smelled it.
Mr. BALL. By that you mean when you moved up to the corner of Elm and Houston ?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes: now, there developed a very brisk north wind.
Mr. BALL. That was in front of the Texas School-Book Depository?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, it?s rather close-the corner is rather close. I mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.

Virgie Rachley's FBI statement given Nov. 24/63 (CD5, p. 67) states:

"She recalled that after the second shot she smelled gunsmoke but did not know where it was coming from."

Yarborough was interviewed by the Houston Post and attributed this quote to him in a Nov 22/63 story:

"A few instants after the shots, Yarborough said, the President's car spurted ahead at a very high rate of speed, with a Secret Service agent lying on the back of it, and beating his fist on the back of the car, as if in great despair and anger. Yarborough said he could smell gunpowder in the area of the shooting. 'I could smell powder all the way into the hospital,' he said."

Whether it was actually detectable as a smell all the way to Parkland is a little more difficult to accept.  It may have been a brain memory that was seared into Yarborough's consciousness at that moment.

There is no reason to believe that gunpowder gases propelled at great speed from the muzzle sticking outside the window would have filled the inside of the 6th Floor of the TSBD. It would have spread out and down onto Dealey Plaza. So it does not surprise me at all that gunpowder smell was detectable around the TSBD.

[Walt Cakebread]

Her statement about smelling gunpowder is independent of her observation that the motorcade stopped.  At least three others reported smelling gunpowder after the shooting.  Sen. Yarborough, Tom Dillard, and Virgie Rachley.

Dillard was familiar with rifles and said this (6H165):

Mr. DILLARD. ...
I might add that I very definitely smelled gun powder when the car moved up at the corner.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mr. DILLARD. I very definitely smelled it.
Mr. BALL. By that you mean when you moved up to the corner of Elm and Houston ?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes: now, there developed a very brisk north wind.
Mr. BALL. That was in front of the Texas School-Book Depository?
Mr. DILLARD. Yes, it?s rather close-the corner is rather close. I mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.

Virgie Rachley's FBI statement given Nov. 24/63 (CD5, p. 67) states:

"She recalled that after the second shot she smelled gunsmoke but did not know where it was coming from."

Yarborough was interviewed by the Houston Post and attributed this quote to him in a Nov 22/63 story:

"A few instants after the shots, Yarborough said, the President's car spurted ahead at a very high rate of speed, with a Secret Service agent lying on the back of it, and beating his fist on the back of the car, as if in great despair and anger. Yarborough said he could smell gunpowder in the area of the shooting. 'I could smell powder all the way into the hospital,' he said."

Whether it was actually detectable as a smell all the way to Parkland is a little more difficult to accept.  It may have been a brain memory that was seared into Yarborough's consciousness at that moment.

There is no reason to believe that gunpowder gases propelled at great speed from the muzzle sticking outside the window would have filled the inside of the 6th Floor of the TSBD. It would have spread out and down onto Dealey Plaza. So it does not surprise me at all that gunpowder smell was detectable around the TSBD.

Mr. DILLARD. Yes, it?s rather close-the corner is rather close. I mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.[/b]

IOW.....Dilliard didn't believe that he could have smelled gunpowder if the shots had been fired from sixty feet above on a windy day....  Mr Dillard was right ......The gunpowder smell didn't emanate from a gun on the sixth floor.

[Andrew Mason]

Mr. DILLARD. Yes, it?s rather close-the corner is rather close. I mentioned it, I believe, that it was rather surprising to me.[/b]

IOW.....Dilliard didn't believe that he could have smelled gunpowder if the shots had been fired from sixty feet above on a windy day....  Mr Dillard was right ......The gunpowder smell didn't emanate from a gun on the sixth floor.

He may have been surprised that the gunpowder gases from the muzzle travelled all the way from the sixth floor to his nose, a distance of about 55-60 feet.  That does not mean they didn't emanate from the sixth floor window where Bob Jackson said he had seen the gun.

Those muzzle gases are escaping initially at 2000 feet per second from the muzzle.  Even if the speed is rapidly attenuated, they are going to cover a lot of distance in even one second.  Lets' suppose their velocity is fully attenuated in 1 second, so the gases go from 2000 fps to 0 fps in 1 second. That is an average speed of 1000 feet per second. So the distance covered in 1 second is 1000 feet.  Those gases would disperse over a large volume. With a SE wind blowing the gases back toward the TSBD, it is no wonder people could smell it around the TSBD several seconds after the shots ended.

[John Iacoletti]

With a SE wind blowing the gases back toward the TSBD, it is no wonder people could smell it around the TSBD several seconds after the shots ended.

Where did you get the idea that wind blowing toward the SE would go back toward the TSBD?

[Howard Gee]

So you don't actually have any evidence that C2766 was fired that day.

I knew you didn't.

 

Hold on there, Sparky.

Give the forum some details of your theory that the frags were planted and/or switched.

So far, all we have is your contention that the chain of custody doesn't measure up.

Did the FBI/SS conspirators have some fragments from a bullet fired by C2766 laying around and think 'let's plant/substitute them into the evidence' ?

Kind of a leap to go from 'the chain of custody isn't satisfactory' to 'the fragments were planted or substituted'.

You have any evidence the fragments in evidence were planted or switched or do you just have a need to play bald Perry Mason defending Saint Oz the Patsy ?

Quit blowing smoke and tell the forum how and when and by whom the planting/switching was done.

WHO KNEW WHACKING THE KOOKS AND THE SAINT OZ DEFENSE TEAM WITH A CLUE BAT COULD BE SUCH FUN ?
 

[Andrew Mason]

Where did you get the idea that wind blowing toward the SE would go back toward the TSBD?

A SE wind is one coming from the soutb-east.

[Andrew Mason]

All witnesses who said they smelled gun smoke were near the limo ( relative to the 6th floor window)  at the time.

I believe it would have been impossible for anybody at street level to have smelled gun smoke.....( from a gun fired from the TSBD window) .

I believe you are wrong. My belief is based on actual evidence as well aa a rational explanation based on the direction an speed speed of the gunpowder gases. What is yours based on?

[Walt Cakebread]

I believe you are wrong. My belief is based on actual evidence as well aa a rational explanation based on the direction an speed speed of the gunpowder gases. What is yours based on?

Experience and commonsense...