The Truly Magical Bullet

[Jerry Freeman]

  these are all theoretical calculations

  The bullet was traveling sideways at this point. 

Key word there..."theoretical"
"Sideways"?
Instead of 'Magic' maybe we should call it the Sidewinder Bullet.


 

[Jack Trojan]

Damn near impossible debating with deniers and obfuscaters. They're obsessed with trying to rationalize the improbable and their mandate is to deny every single piece of evidence that suggests LHO was not a lone nut. They are actually conspiracy denialists that must pooh-pooh all evidence counter to the LN narrative by either ignoring, obfuscating, or calling you a drooling CT kook, because that's all they got.

And I thought LNers were supposed to be advocates of Occam's Razor where the simplest explanation is the most probable. But how likely was it that a FMJ bullet with a downward trajectory of -17 deg yaw, by -12 deg pitch, relative to JFK's body position and the 6th floor window of the TSBD, struck JFK in the back at the T1 vertebrae then exited a small hole in the throat at C7 without hitting the spine, then suddenly tumbles into Connally? Because that's not what the x-ray tells us:



Clearly the MB hit the C7 vertebrae, yet the LNers even deny their own x-ray evidence. And what does an overhead view tell us?



Looks like the bullet couldn't avoid either C7 or T1, and it didn't according to the x-ray.

My point being, that the MB not only smashed thru Connally's bones, but JFK's spine as well. Then it shows up in the darndest place with no trace of JFK or Connally on it and only slightly flattened at the base. What would Mr. Occam say about that?

[Tim Nickerson]

You're funny. You should change your moniker to Snickerson.
OK so I'm slow. Perhaps you could link to your link.
Should be easy for someone sharp ......like you.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,753.msg17505.html#msg17505

"Earlier, the FBI inadvertently proved that cotton waste, when compressed as it builds up on a penetrating bullet, is denser than soft tissue. They did this by firing WCC/MC bullets from the Oswald rifle into cotton waste at muzzle velocity. They were trying to recover undeformed bullets fired from the Oswald rifle. Such bullets were needed as ballistic standards with which to compare CE 399 and the fragments recovered from the floor of the limousine to determine whether they were fired from Oswald's weapon. The bullets they recovered in this manner were suitable as standards, but were deformed to a greater extent than CE 399. This point was missed entirely by Dr. Wecht in his HSCA testimony when he used the picture reproduced as figure 4 that contains those bullets. He claimed that the deformation in cotton waste proved that CE 399 did not smash the Governor's wrist since it would have been deformed more in the "hard bone". He considered the effect of strength and, perhaps, density of the target on deformation---but not the much greater effect of velocity." -- Larry Sturdivan, The JFK Myths: A Scientific Investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, pages 130 and 131.
https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Myths-Scientific-Investigation-Assassination/dp/1557788472


There is at least one other poster here who can confirm that the excerpt above is indeed genuine. Barring that, here's a part of Sturdivan's HSCA testimony that says essentially the same:

"Mr. STURDIVAN - On F-294, it shows the picture of five bullets. Commission exhibit 399, of course, is the infamous bullet. The commission exhibit 572, as I understand it, were a couple of bullets that were recovered in cotton-waste media, which, incidentally, is a little denser than tissue and, therefore, caused perhaps a little more extensive deformation than a soft recovery in gelatin would have. Exhibit 853 is a bullet that has ricocheted from the rib of a goat carcass, as Dr. Wecht indicated. However, let's remember that the goat, which is roughly 100 pounds, is much, much smaller than Governor Connally and, therefore, the bullet passed through a relatively small amount of soft tissue before it hit the bone and, therefore, lost correspondingly less velocity. So, we would have to say that the striking velocity on that bullet, C.E. 853, was much in excess of the striking velocity on Governor Connally, even if the bullet had passed through nothing before it hit Governor Connally. C.E. 856 is a bullet that was shot directly into a cadaver wrist without passing through anything before it hit. It is characteristic of the kind of deformation that you would expect of a bullet that strikes at high velocity. In other words, this was direct proof that the bullet that struck Governor Connally's wrist was not at high velocity; that is, CE-399 was not at high velocity. Otherwise, it would have been deformed as this bullet was in striking dense bone."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscastur.htm

[Mitch Todd]

The topic is the Magic Bullet if you didn't notice.

The topic of this thread is the "truly magical bullet"...the bullet that many CT's want to believe hit JFK in the throat, then somehow seems to have disappeared without a trace before it even made it all the way past the trachea. That's not the magic bullet you are looking for, stormtrooper. In any case, you brought up the SBT, which is only tangentially acquainted with the magic bullet (I should say the untruly magic bullet, just to avoid confusing you). The two ideas are wrongly conflated. Even if, arguendo, CE399 were some sort of plant, that wouldn't prevent JFK and JBC from being hit by the same projectile. It just wouldn't have been CE399.

About the other....Bugliosi seemed to buy the SBT, hook, line and sinker and you seem to also so... uhhhh....yeah I presumed. So what?

The epic rush to judgement of it says a lot about how you think, and you don't really seem to think a lot, judging from what I've seen from you so far.

 
What is this crap about Jackie Stewart?

It was a simile, used to demonstrate the complete pointlessness of your trying to impugn Baden's credentials as an FP with a pack of half-assed, beside-the-point accusations.
 

 
Someone doesn't stand up and agree so that means that they disagree?
Talk about 'presume'.

You don't read too well, do you? The HSCA FPP issued a report endorsing the SBT, among other things. While the report was written by Loquvam and Weston, it represented the opinion of the panel. The only dissenter was Cyril Wecht. In his dissent, Wecht noted that Spitz and Weston were pro-SBT, and then he noted that "'it was disclosed that subpanel I was in unanimous agreement with respect to the interpretation of the evidence." That is, everyone on subpanel I supported the SBT. All of them. Wecht helpfully notes that subpanel I was composed of all FPP members except himself, Weston, and Sptiz, the two guys he already labelled as SBTites.  So, out of the whole FPP, Wecht was the only gut who didn't like the SBT.

As I said, Petty and Baden testified to the HSCA that they agreed with the SBT. Since Loquvam wrote the report, we know he supported it. And (again) Wecht named Spitz and Weston as SBT men. At a minimum, that's the SBT's 5 to your single Wecht. Not a very fair fight.

On the other hand, it's been 40 years since the report was issued. 40 years of opportunity for any of the FPP members to come out and say "I didn't agree with the SBT." None did.

 
Back to square one....
Provide a link where a forensic specialist/scientific/medical professional DISAGREES with Cyril Wecht on the SBT and proves where Dr Wecht is wrong regarding CE 399...or shut up about it.

Square one was a question about what happened to a hypothetical bullet that hit JFK in the throat with the upmost in hypothetical violence, and it was directed at CT's.

Square one in this particular exchange was your observation that the famously anti-SBT "Cyril Wecht is a foremost forensic pathologist." While your statement is technically true, it doesn't tell the whole story: Wecht is in a small (probably a very small) minority of FPs who have seen the evidence and think that the SBT is impossible.

I've already pointed you to where to find the information you demand. I guess you just don't want to find it, or even think about it.

As for the CE399 demand, it is Wecht who is making the specific claim (ie, that it couldn't do what they said it did, and come out looking like it does), and it is therefore his responsibility to prove his claim. By extension, it is up to anyone who champions Wecht's claim to prove it. That means you. Your petulant demands otherwise is nothing more than a half-assed attempt to shift the burden.
 

[Tim Nickerson]

Any expert who disagrees with the party line is a "nut" by definition as far as LNers are concerned.

But ask them how many firearms experts agreed with Nicol that a slug pulled out of Tippit could be matched to a specific revolver and they all go silent...

That's a poor analogy. Wecht was not, and is not, a wound ballistics expert. His opinion was based on ignorance, not on science. Also the FBI experts never disagreed with Nicol. That is, they never claimed that Nicol couldn't have possibly matched the slug to Oswald's revolver. They did their examinations, he did his. It's possible that their standard for what qualified as a match was more stringent than his.

[Mitch Todd]

[...]
Clearly the MB hit the C7 vertebrae, yet the LNers even deny their own x-ray evidence. And what does an overhead view tell us?



Looks like the bullet couldn't avoid either C7 or T1, and it didn't according to the x-ray.

My point being, that the MB not only smashed thru Connally's bones, but JFK's spine as well. Then it shows up in the darndest place with no trace of JFK or Connally on it and only slightly flattened at the base. What would Mr. Occam say about that?

Yeah, well, about that CT image. Why does the "C7" in "C7 intervertebral disc" look so bright compared to the rest of the text in the image? In fact, why does the image look so much like the "T1-T2 intervertebral disc" image from this site: https://mrimaster.com/anatomy%20neck%20axial.html ? Also, why is the subclavian artery visible in an image of the neck (think of the meaning of the word "subclavian" for a second). Or parts of the pleural cavity, for that matter.

I would say that someone, at some point, modified the original image from, removing "T1-T2" and crudely replacing it with "C7"

[Tim Nickerson]

Yeah, well, about that CT image. Why does the "C7" in "C7 intervertebral disc" look so bright compared to the rest of the text in the image? In fact, why does the image look so much like the "T1-T2 intervertebral disc" image from this site: https://mrimaster.com/anatomy%20neck%20axial.html ? Also, why is the subclavian artery visible in an image of the neck (think of the meaning of the word "subclavian" for a second). Or parts of the pleural cavity, for that matter.

I would say that someone, at some point, modified the original image from, removing "T1-T2" and crudely replacing it with "C7"

Mitch, someone did modify the original image by removing T1 and replacing it with C7. It was Trojan himself. He's not able to discuss or defend his position in a reasonable manner. Just ask him where he got the 12? from.

[Jerry Freeman]

The topic of this thread is the "truly magical bullet"

OK whatever

The epic rush to judgement of it says a lot about how you think, and you don't really seem to think a lot, judging from what I've seen from you so far.

Insulting one's intelligence like this is what makes you a true blue troll.
And you haven't "seen'' me.

It was a simile, used to demonstrate the complete pointlessness of your trying....

All I did was try and provide links on forensics.

You don't read too well, do you? The HSCA FPP issued a report ...

Blah Blah... take the rest of your post and shove it up your backside.
Must have taken 3 or 4 hours for you to construct all that drivel.